Quaife Or Tran-x Lsd?

[timmsy19 3]

As per title really?

 

im quite new to the world or LSD's so got a few questions

 

Whats peoples opinions of both of them

 

Say i was planning to SC the Mi16 and plan to run around the 250 figure what would you recomend?

 

Oh and whats the difference in "ramp angles" and plate settings?

Edited October 21, 2009 by timmsy19

[Alastairh 47]

Tran X. I miss mine.

[boombang 2]

What application? track, road, rally...

[timmsy19 3]

^^ road mainly but possibly a bit of track in the future

[Mark205T45 0]

As a road car id say quaife atb but as a track weapon a gripper plated lsd

[Baz 421]

Kaaz, TranX...

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

You need to be really honest about what you will use it for. If it will do ~1 trackday a year then I'd lean towards the Quaife. If it will do loads of trackdays and not much road I'd go for the Tran-x.

[oli-pug 6 2 Cars]

I'd still say a tran-x is fine for a daily driven car that gets serviced properly though. Mine's on the lightest settings and just driving normally, it's not really noticeable.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Tran X or Gripper over the Quaife personally, Never been a fan of the latter but the only advantage is fit and forget, Kaaz are OK but only having a importer for parts could be a issue on service/repair.

[timmsy19 3]

You need to be really honest about what you will use it for. If it will do ~1 trackday a year then I'd lean towards the Quaife. If it will do loads of trackdays and not much road I'd go for the Tran-x.

 

Tom if im really honest it willbe a daily drive and probably used for 2 to 3 track days a year with the other club i run

 

Ok im swaying towards the Quaife at the moment based on the comments above about mainly a road car.

 

Miles is there any particular reason or experience your not a fan of the Quaife?

Edited October 22, 2009 by timmsy19

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Oh and whats the difference in "ramp angles" and plate settings?

 

My understanding is that the plate settings control how much preload the diff is set too - this is how 'tight' it is, ie. how much difference in torque between the left and right wheels are needed before the diff allows them to slip. The ramp angles control the behaviour of the diff on load (and negtive load too, ie. under braking) and how much additional pressure is applied to the plates (and how quickly). Low ramp angles allow additional lock more easily; steep ramp angles make it harder.

[timmsy19 3]

Ahhh thanks brumster. Thats a little easier to understand

Edited October 22, 2009 by timmsy19

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I have a Tran-X plate fitted by Miles, and it's 98% of the time a road car.

 

Miles left it set on the least aggressive ramp settings, and I only notice it when I make it work. That's how I wanted it.

 

Plate diff for me everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The quaife act's like a open diff if you lift a wheel etc and from using them on the road I don't feel them working that well, Personal preferance I know but try them back to back and I'll bet you that the Plate would win

[kyepan 291]

With the quaife, you feel it engage and disengage as you apply power and lift off even under gentle use, the car will generally go more in the direction the wheel is pointing as you apply the power or brake. this takes some getting used to, especially with a twitchy 309 front setup.

 

Under braking it also helps keep you stable, this was a surprise to me but for certain it stops much better and is less prone to locking up.

 

You also have to change your driving style to make use of it's positive effects though, if you coast round corners, or brake hard into the apex then point and squirt you will not get all the benefits. A more slow in fast out style makes use of the extra mid corner and exit grip when on the power.

 

 

 

The Quaife will still allow the wheels to travel at different speeds (which is what helps an open dif get you round a bend) but it applies more torque to the wheel with more grip.

 

However this can mean it counteracts your steering input. For example, if you are going round a left hand bend and the outside wheel looses grip, more torque goes to the inside wheel to keep you moving, but will try to steer you out of the bend, like a tank using it's tracks to turn.

 

When the same situation happens with a plate diff, both driveshafts will be locked together and you will have no differential between wheel speeds, It may apply the same force to the inside wheel and result in the same opposite turning effect, but this can be limited by how the plate diff comes into force (ramp angle ).

 

Because your wheel speed differential has been lost the wheel will be harder to turn. This means the inside wheel will slip very slightly.

 

So in effect, the people running plate diffs on a minimal setting are possibly getting less of the LSD effect than a standard Quaife... which is no bad thing.

 

sarty's felt similar to the quaife, but slightly harder to tell when it cut in and out, it was hardly noticeable(although i didn't drive it in anger).

 

Quaife's seem to retain much of their value, but the trend on here is towards plate variants because of the above, and they behave better when one wheel has zero grip or is in the air (what miles said).

 

saying that i would still pop for a quaife because i put my money where my mouth is.

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

With the quaife, you feel it engage and disengage as you apply power and lift off even under gentle use, the car will generally go more in the direction the wheel is pointing as you apply the power or brake. this takes some getting used to, especially with a twitchy 309 front setup.

 

Under braking it also helps keep you stable, this was a surprise to me but for certain it stops much better and is less prone to locking up.

 

You also have to change your driving style to make use of it's positive effects though, if you coast round corners, or brake hard into the apex then point and squirt you will not get all the benefits. A more slow in fast out style makes use of the extra mid corner and exit grip when on the power.

 

 

 

The Quaife will still allow the wheels to travel at different speeds (which is what helps an open dif get you round a bend) but it applies more torque to the wheel with more grip.

 

However this can mean it counteracts your steering input. For example, if you are going round a left hand bend and the outside wheel looses grip, more torque goes to the inside wheel to keep you moving, but will try to steer you out of the bend, like a tank using it's tracks to turn.

 

When the same situation happens with a plate diff, both driveshafts will be locked together and you will have no differential between wheel speeds, It may apply the same force to the inside wheel and result in the same opposite turning effect, but this can be limited by how the plate diff comes into force (ramp angle ).

 

Because your wheel speed differential has been lost the wheel will be harder to turn. This means the inside wheel will slip very slightly.

 

So in effect, the people running plate diffs on a minimal setting are possibly getting less of the LSD effect than a standard Quaife... which is no bad thing.

 

sarty's felt similar to the quaife, but slightly harder to tell when it cut in and out, it was hardly noticeable(although i didn't drive it in anger).

 

Quaife's seem to retain much of their value, but the trend on here is towards plate variants because of the above, and they behave better when one wheel has zero grip or is in the air (what miles said).

 

saying that i would still pop for a quaife because i put my money where my mouth is.

 

I know absolutely f*** all about diffs, so can I just say that reply is one of the most comprehensive and fantastically well written posts on the forum this year. Good man and thanks for the input, you have educated me there, I wish more people would reply with practical demonstrations we can all relate to like this.

 

Maxi

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I couldn't agree more Adam.

 

Justin has always impressed, nay amazed me when it comes to talking about car handling. He has a great deal to offer the forum and it's even more amazing when he'll openly admit that his car's a bit of a 'bucket of bolts'.

 

He doesn't say (or read: mini dig) much, but when he does....

 

I learnt a lot too, and the next time you drive mine Justin, either in Evo I (now it's fully sorted) or Evo II format, you can rape it!!!!!

 

BTW my mate Pronta, who's not only a VW/VAG forum guru but a support mechanic for a 900bhp V10 Le Mans Dodge Viper, just helped them spend nearly £900 on just 4 new ramps/plates for the Viper's diff, so it would seem this is very much an area worth knowing more about, as power without control is nothing.

 

Didn't Pirelli say that?

[timmsy19 3]

Yep very good reply Justn and pretty much the reply i was looking for

 

Where you say about the slow in fast out drivng style. that is almost what i do now anyway which is good news

 

Looks like quaife will be the way forward. Spoke to my mate at Corbeau today who knows the guys at quaife so might be in with a discount

Edited October 24, 2009 by timmsy19

[paulsupervts84 0]

i would go with quaife atb as it is my road/ track friendly, just a put it in and forget about it where with gripper it needs setting up and you have to strip the gearbox to do this, so i would go with quaife myself

[Cameron 16]

You don't need to strip the gearbox, just take the driveshafts out and diff cover off. It only needs doing once every year or two.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

You set the diff up on installation then fit so no hard than a Quaife, Yes they need a service but they can go on for years just like a Clutch

[paulsupervts84 0]

each to there own but personal with a quaife diff you dont need to setup anything up so it makes life abit easyer

[James_R 3]

A Quaife is a good addition compared to the open diff, but then there's almost the same leap again going with a plate. Everyone gets very hung up on maintaince, but I've had mine in coming on 3 years and lots of trackmiles and still like new, The down side to quaifes is they pull you around, and when you're powering out a corner they give up the grip much more early than a plate diff. Regardless of driving style the plate set will work for you.

 

Having abused an ATB on a 200BHP 205 I came away unimpressed, it does aid in direction, but a plate as said just locks out the nose and drags the tail where the front wheels point, you have the option of turning in on the power and nosing the car round, or sliding through the apex sideways and rallying corssing the exit, which is a handy option if you over cook it pushing hard, something I felt the quaife couldn't muster.

 

I'd at least try out one of each before commiting to the money, you'll know you're made the right decision then, rather than listening to a load of people in the internet (myself included) spout about what they think.

[paulsupervts84 0]

it all depends what you are using the car for ???

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Have you actually owned or driven a car with a plate diff in it?