Tlc For My Gti

[scottish_lion 0]

Ok, I'm going to bombard you with a mishmash of questions. Once (if) I get my car through its MOT this weekend, I'm going to treat it to some TLC.

 

My front top suspension mounts are knackered - I think the bump stops have disintegrated and it's meant that the strut tops have bent upward and dented the bonnet from inside. My friend says he has a tool to bend the shell back down again and suggested a fixed strut brace would be a good guide to line everything up right and obviously would give extra strength in the future.

 

I hear alot about group N top mounts - what are these exactly? Is it a stronger replacement for the rubber bump-stops, or is it just the mounting plate for the top of the strut?

 

I'm running standard newish shocks with -35 springs. I'm tempted to try to get hold of some -20mm springs to bring some ride comfort back. Does this sound like a good plan and will I notice a difference? At the moment when I hit a pot hole the suspension just slams through it's whole travel = NOT GOOD.

 

If I raise the front slightly, how easy is it to raise the back to match. Seems to me like a huge job when talking about the rear beam. It's started creaking a bit too, so how could fixing this tie in with raising it?

 

Any advice will be gratefully received, in particular, which strut brace togo for and where to buy it from, same for top mounts/replacement rubbers.

 

Hope some of you can help, my car is not at its best...

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, it's a 1992 1.9 205 GTI for those who dont know me!

Edited October 20, 2009 by scottish_lion

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

suggested a fixed strut brace would be a good guide to line everything up right and obviously would give extra strength in the future.

I don't think a strut brace would do what you're after, they just stop the turrents flexing. I think maybe you need some strengething plates (clicky) or something similar for the turret tops if they have deformed.

Edited October 20, 2009 by Liquid_106

[omega 82]

i ve got bad news

if the rear beam is making a noise its rebuild time

if you do it soon you might be able to save it

[mang 3]

Iv got adjustable top mounts on my 205 they are made from metal NO rubber at all i got them for about £90 i think they are well worth the money you can also buy ones that are not adjustable for a bit less.(they dont fit to well with avo adjustable coilovers they need grinding abit).

[scottish_lion 0]

I fancy the benefits of a strut brace anyway, do you think it'd be possible to fix one on top of those strengthening plates?

 

Mang, those top mounts sound interesting. When you say adjustable, what can you adjust (camber? castor?)?

 

Does anyone know someone in Scotland who could rebuild my beam? How big a job is it?

 

Thanks

[tagy 1]

I hear alot about group N top mounts - what are these exactly? Is it a stronger replacement for the rubber bump-stops, or is it just the mounting plate for the top of the strut?

 

I think you are referring to the group N top mount rubbers, they are a replacement for the rubber rings in the top mount, just made from a harder material.

 

The adjustable top mounts mang mentions will only fit coilovers afaik.

 

A picture might be usefull to see just how bent it is.

[scottish_lion 0]

I'll see what I can do at the weekend regarding a pic. Car's at my parents.

[Anthony 1,003]

The strut tops bend very easily and even a pothole hit at speed can do it, so I wouldn't worry too much - remove the strut, and a block of wood and a lump hammer is perfectly sufficient to knock them flat again. You'll probably find that the studs on the top mount will have bent outwards as well, which makes removing and refitting the strut a bit of a pain unless you (gently) straighten them again.

 

A strut brace will help to a point to stop them bending, but for any kind of heavy-duty use you'll need the strengthening plates fitted. For road and occasional track use however they are not needed IMO.

 

As said, a rear beam that's creaking is likely to be in a distinctly sorry state and it won't be a simple job to just raise it up a touch - assume it needs a full rebuild and be pleasantly surprised if it is any better.

[scottish_lion 0]

The roads up here are horrendous for pot holes. So I think I will do the strengthening. I'm stressed about my rear beam!

 

Hoping someone local will be able to help me out. What parts are replaced during a refurb and how much are the parts alone likely to cost. Bearing in mind the noise started very recently and the camber is still perfect.

 

Oh, and Tagy, Just rewatched your Eurotrip vid and your car is the best sounding thing in the whole world!

[omega 82]

The roads up here are horrendous for pot holes. So I think I will do the strengthening. I'm stressed about my rear beam!

 

Hoping someone local will be able to help me out. What parts are replaced during a refurb and how much are the parts alone likely to cost. Bearing in mind the noise started very recently and the camber is still perfect.

 

Oh, and Tagy, Just rewatched your Eurotrip vid and your car is the best sounding thing in the whole world!

 

 

rebuilt beams are about 300/400 pounds

a set of berings are about 90 pounds then it depends if you need arms etc plus labour

[mang 3]

I fancy the benefits of a strut brace anyway, do you think it'd be possible to fix one on top of those strengthening plates?

 

Mang, those top mounts sound interesting. When you say adjustable, what can you adjust (camber? castor?)?

 

Does anyone know someone in Scotland who could rebuild my beam? How big a job is it?

 

Thanks

They adjust the camber yay corners

[scottish_lion 0]

OK, time to buy parts now for the front suspension.

 

Please recommend EXACTLY which parts to buy...

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Peugeot-205-Front-St...=item5acf097bbd

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Peugeot-205-309-GTi-...=item35a457f3f7

 

Do I also need to replace the bearings do you think? I dont really understand how the top of my front suspension is put together, so need specific advice on what to buy. My friends will be able to fit it though.

 

Also, can someone recommend a good fixed strut brace?

 

PLEASE HELP ME!

[Rupertfinch 6]

I've been in exactly the same place, seems a wee bit daunting, but ended up good in the end, plus I learnt a lot about the pugs.

 

ebay link number one - you'll be wanting a set of these, but have you thought about getting them from Baker Bushes and Mounts (BBM)? Stuart - the owner is a fairly regular poster on here and there's a discount code if you look at the group buy thread. He does the uprated ''group N'' ones they will actually raise your ride height a little as they don't deform as much as the ones you've got in do.

 

I see that link 2 is also for these.

 

I'd be tempted to get the bearings if I were you. SKF appear to be the brand to get, they're pretty easy to get from most motorfactors/ car parts places (the word motorfactor sometimes confuses people - so please don't think I'm taking the piss). I certainly fitted SKF ones to mine.

 

I also replaced the bump stops, can't remember the part number from pug - but if I'm hitting the bumpstops then I probably should ease off a bit!

 

I'll include 2 diagrams if I can, these are on my other PC so it'll take another post.

 

I think you'll be able to salvage and reuse everything else you've got left, provided it's not overly corroded.

 

And finally, strut brace wise - I use an adjustable OMP brace on a standard bonnet and now the bonnet doesn't sit totally right, so perhaps it'd be best to replace the suspension first and then think about a brace later on.

 

 

All that before you even think about droplinks and wishbones... it never stops with the Pugs!

[Rupertfinch 6]

Freshly stolen from a Cybernck reply earlier in the week.

[Rupertfinch 6]

Crappy use of windows Paint follows. Please note these are not probably the technical terms more like my nonsense words.

 

1. Spring seat thing - rests on top of spring. Keep this and get cleaning and hammeriting.

2. Bearing

3. Upside down metal cup thing - again keep this and give it a touch up.

4. Top mount rubber

5. The 3 pronged top plate - this is the bit you see poking up through the suspension turret with 3 nuts securing it.

6. Another little cup which also has a washer within - this secures the big locknut that holds the shock absorber itself.

 

I await the flaming.

Mark

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

Leo, the parts you link to are both exactly the same thing just from different people but you can also get them from BakerBM.com (stew 205 on here) & he gives you a discount to forum members as mentioned by Rupert.

 

I recently got some SKF top mount bearings for my 306 & tbh while you have the strut apart you might as well replace them as I doubt its ever had a set since it rolled off the forecourt 17+ years ago.

 

You can buy just the bearing if you ask for them to fit a 306 or ZX (N45710, £9.50 ea +vat from GSF), if you ask for them for a 205 GTI you'll pay more & get a standard rubber top mount in them most times. I know I did a few years ago.

 

IMO if you have domed the top mounts rather than masking it with a strut brace get some strut top plates fitted & then fit a strut brace if you really want to.

 

The picture below also shows how the strut is built up;

 

Click on thumbnail for fullsize.

 

Graham.

[scottish_lion 0]

Your response has been great guys, I cant tell you how grateful I am, it's so confusing!

 

Ok, so one thing I need cleared up, Number 4 in Mark's diagram - the top mount rubber, this is what I'll be buying from BBM yes?

 

So is that me covered with the bearings and the top mount rubbers, or do I need to buy new bump stops aswell? This is the bit I dont understand. Am I correct in thinking this is what's pictured on the bottom right of Graham's photo?

[scottish_lion 0]

Oh, and do you think I'll get away with my standard shocks and -35 springs once the top mounts are sorted and the shell stiffened? I dont really want to go down the stiffer shocks route, but had considered the -20mm spring option to try to cut out some of the discomfort when hitting a pot hole.

[Rupertfinch 6]

Yep, the bumpstop is the yellow coloured thing and the black gubbin above is a rubber gaitor to stop crap getting at the nice shiney rod in your shock.

 

And yes number 4 is the BakerBM part.

 

Suspension is a dark art and what some like others hate. I've OE Bilstein shocks, with Skip Brown springs (-25mm) , SKF bearings, BBM topmounts and I'm happy enough, but now I'm looking at the group buy thinking mmmm GAZ shocks!

 

Oh and start avoiding potholes! I shall be finding some of east Fife's finest ones in a hire car next week - can't wait!

[GLPoomobile 958]

Just to repeat some of the above....

 

1 - Go to BBM for the top mount rubber bush. He does a Grp N version and a softer Fast Road version IIRC (which would be a half way house between standard and Grp N in terms of stiffness). Most people who have the Grp N versions will rave about how good they are, and how they give you that bit of extra feel, but me, I never took to them I had the same suspension set up (swapped between 2 cars) but on one I had standard rubbers, and then I had the Grp N rubbers, and I found the Grp N to be too hard for my liking on rutted and pot holed roads. I just found the ride to be too crashy. Perhaps better shocks would have compensated Grp N will increase ride height by about 5mm.

 

2 - Replacing the top mount bearings is an absolute no brainer to me. For the cost, and if you are taking the lot apart anyway, slap some new ones in.

 

3 - Unless I missed it you haven't said what shocks you have. If they are standard and don't have bump stops, then fit some. Presumably Pug can sort you out here, I'm not sure. If the shocks are still in good condition, then a set of Eibach 7001 springs could be what you need. I've never heard a bad word against them, and although they are ~35mm lower, they work really well. I had a set on an old pair of OE shocks (age unknown), and I really liked the ride (preferred it to my current Koni yellow shocks and springs that are ~25mm lower). Rich has the same set up bolted to his stupid gay chrome dustbins . That's as much advice as I can give from actual experience, but having spent years absorbing info from the forum it seems clear that a combination of Bilstein shocks and Eibach 7001 springs is one of the best for road use, but that will cost you. Or another recommendation I keep hearing is OE GTI6 shocks with Eibach springs. Speak to uncle Miles for a good deal on the springs and Billy shocks (if you fancy them).

 

4 - Strut braces are all pretty much of a muchness. But as said, some of them like the OMP and Sparco ones curve upwards from the strut plates and can interfere with the bonnet. Seems OK on some shells and not others. I have an unbranded brace from eBay which has seperate strut plates with a polished alloy flat bar that bolts between them. I've seen a few people using this type (Dreamweaver had it on his).

 

One last tip - the top part of the strut assembly with the 3 studs that poke up through the shell, the studs are a little flimsy on them (you may find if you look closely that they no longer point straight up, and are now bent out slightly away, pointing away from each other). Be very careful with doing the nuts up on these as it is very easy to give it that little too much torque and shear the stud off. Not the end of the world if it happens as you can drill out the stud and fit a bolt through instead. Just means more work though.

[scottish_lion 0]

I'm running a new pair of standard OE shocks, with -35 spax springs. These are great on a smooth road, but yeah, the ride is really crashy on a rough road (ie any road in Edinburgh)

 

Sounds like you reckon the fast road rubbers would be a better bet for combating some of the harshness of my cheap suspension set-up!?

[GLPoomobile 958]

SPAX springs? There's your answer then! Bin em.

[Davidmccall 0]

I have put the spensjon back in  Reverse order

But i have a gap at the  top. What i i done wrong 

[Davidmccall 0]

Yes put that on first. 

[Davidmccall 0]

Is this the one you meen