Mi16 Loom / Phase 2 Dash And Phase 1 Loom

[smokey 0]

Hiya guys

 

Hope everyone is well.

 

Was wondering if anyone can help me with a few wiring questions?

 

I have a phase 1 CTI which i'm putting an Mi16 engine into.

 

I have a Mi16 engine loom which needed piecing together which is now done (thanks to everyone who helped me on that)

 

I have changed the dash to a phase 2 so i have a phase 2 dash loom.

 

Plus i have the phase 1 engine loom which came with the car.

 

Here is a picture of them all laid out

 

 

With the phase 1 engine loom there are still lights and relays etc which i'm guessing i need to cut out to use again?

Any suggestions on which ones i need? would i keep all the wires that go to the fuse box?

 

With the Mi16 loom the 2 brown plugs are missing and all i have is a bunch of wires which i've identified. Now i know these effectively go to the 2 brown plugs on the dash loom.

However looking at my dash loom i can only find 1 brown plug, but there is a white plug with it a similar size.

 

They are in the bottom left of this picture which is of the phase 2 dash loom

 

 

Do i need to connect the wires on the MI16 loom which would have 2 brown plugs to these brown and white plugs on the dash loom?

 

Hope you can help guys

 

Thanks

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

The best way to know which are the correct 'two brown plugs' in the dash loom would be by the wire numbers going into them. One should be 9pin and one should be 6 pin.

 

They are listed in this thread:

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...=102782&hl=

 

The situation you are in with looms lying on the floor is probably the most depressing time of any install. Most of us have been there.

 

Those 'brown plugs' are really all that's needed to make the engine run, and really it's only a couple of wires in those. All of the others are just for dials and gauges and the reverse lights etc.

 

I visualise it all as 3 looms: the (Mi16) engine management loom (incl rev counter) / the engine feedback loom (dials, gauges, warning lights etc) / and everything else which is not really associated with the engine at all. The only exception being the fuel pump power feed, which is wire 76 and white IIRC.

 

But as you have EVERYTHING out by the looks of it, including the fuse/relay box, I would suggest putting those back in so it leaves you only having to join the engine loom once it's in the car. Either way, I'd say you definitely have all you need, and a multimeter and a Motronic loom diagram (3 row version attached) is all you need*.

 

*Plus patience, a few cups of tea and the ability to walk away.

Mi16__XU9J4__3Row_ECU_Loom_Laying__Pin_Nos__ComponentsLOCKED_5.pdf

Edited October 10, 2009 by DrSarty

[smokey 0]

Thanks Sarty

 

Thought you might be the one to help :-)

 

Actually don't think your that far from me. The car is actually at my parents in Lewdown

 

So going from what you've said should i stick the original phase 1 engine loom with the relays ect back into the car?

 

Will check the wire numbers and post how i'm getting on later.

 

Just putting the dash in and noticed these plugs on the back

 

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Just putting the dash in and noticed these plugs on the back

 

Any ideas?

 

Looks like an earth block.

 

And you'll find me 3,500 miles away.

 

Don't stick any other ECU loom back in, but you could find the parts of the old engine loom that used to go to the plugs under the dash, i.e. for the oil pressure sender etc. These wires should have the correct connectors on the engine end and be numbered (as per the above link) to match up to the plugs under the dash, whatever colour they are.

 

All of the wires in the Mi16 loom (that go to the big plug) are needed, but it may include a duplicate set of the above engine feedback loom. Naturally you only need one of each, so you could skip the above and IF the Mi loom is complete just use that.

 

It is so hard to explain on here.

 

Sit with the loom diagram above and study it and all should become clear. I'm happy to help as best I can, but you need to sort out that spaghetti, and I suggested starting that by reinstalling everything that is NOT engine management related, e.g fuse box etc.

 

The relays you mention (not in the fuse box) are for the fuel pump and injectors and should be included in the Mi loom. You don't need to strip those out of the old engine loom, just potentially the feedback loom.

Edited October 10, 2009 by DrSarty

[smokey 0]

Looks like an earth block.

 

And you'll find me 3,500 miles away.

 

Ah cool thanks mate.

 

Your still away then!! May hopefully have mine done when you get back.

 

Keep safe!!

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Got something useful for you Smokes but your In Box is full.

[smokey 0]

Got something useful for you Smokes but your In Box is full.

 

Inbox cleared mate.

 

Just read your extra bit you added. Makes more sense now. Especially the relays etc.

 

With the old engine loom there are wires that go to the lights etc so i'm working my way through that to remove them but leaving everything else.

I was thinking though, with this old engine loom being from a phase 1 car will there be the sensor plugs? Reason i'm asking is the phase 1 dash loom didn't have the brown plugs like the phase 2 do?!

 

Your right with the Mi16 loom all the wires in that are just for the engine. The loom was originally cut and i had to work out which wires were which and put them back together

 

There was a thread on this:

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=108387

 

The only thing i need to do on the Mi16 loom is wire up plugs to the sensor wires as these plugs were missing on my loom. So if they are on my old engine loom that would be great.

 

Dash loom is now back in the car so will start looking at the engine looms

 

Thanks

[smokey 0]

UPDATE....

 

I've just looked through the rest of the new phase 2 dash loom and there are no plugs which correspond to the 2 brown plugs.

 

There are a few 9 pin plugs but non of these have the wires with those numbers mentioned one plug does have 2 wires which match the numbers mentioned.

 

There are no 6 pin plugs. There are 5 pins etc but again non of these have wires which match the wire numbers i need to find.

 

I'm starting to think the dash loom i've got is no good!!

 

Also to add there are no light or wiper stalk plugs on this loom??!

 

Just to add the dash loom is in and everything was going well, i.e the clock plugs connected correctly and then the centre dash switches etc, so i was thinking it was all correct, until i couldn't find the stalk plugs or the brown plugs for the sensors!!

 

Any ideas guys i'm really lost now!!

[MrG 3]

smokey, I'm in a similar position with all looms out and not really having a clue where things get put back together, so good luck on the project, and pics could be good for future use!

 

I have what looks like 2 engine looms, as well as a loom that sits behind the dash and one from the instrument cluster??

Edited October 21, 2009 by MrG

[smokey 0]

Hey MrG

 

Maybe we can help each other out.

 

With your dash loom is it a phase 1 or phase 1.5/2?

 

I have the Mi engine loom and the 205 engine loom which has the lights and relays etc in it.

I think we only need the lights etc out of the 205 loom. As the relays will be used on the Mi loom.

 

My biggest problem at the moment is i have a phase 2 dash loom to go with my phase 2 dash.

This wires up the clocks, central console switches, fag lighter etc.

 

But there are no plugs for the stalks. Plus i can't find any brown mulitplugs, which i thought were supposed to be on this loom. Especially with it being a later phase loom. I know the phase 1 loom did not have multiplugs back then.

 

I've been told that there might have been a separate loom for the stalks. But i'm still not sure if the brown mulit plugs would be on this section or not.

 

Any help on this would be great. Because until i can determine what i need i cant actually start putting it all together!!

[smokey 0]

UPDATE...

 

I've had abit of success (I think) with the loom situation.

 

The wiper stalk problem (not having the plugs) was due to needing another loom!!

 

There are 2 looms that are under the dash. One for the Speedo clock and one for the wiper stalks and ignition.

 

Lucking Steve (cornish steve) found a phase 1.5 CTI which was being broken so we removed the whole dash looms .

 

Now this loom out of the new car has the 2 brown plugs

 

I compared this loom to my other phase 1.5/2 dash loom and it looks like this loom did have the brown plugs, one was white though lol.

 

Also with the wiring diagrams which are on the forum it looks like the wires/numbers being quoted are for the plugs that go to the dash from the engine, not the brown plugs that are connected to the dash loom!!

 

This picture shows the brown plugs on the new dash loom i got yesterday, with the brown plugs that go to the engine.

 

 

This picture shows the brown plugs which are on the new dash loom and the plugs on the old dash loom

 

 

The wires are the same on each loom, but one plug being white threw me. Also the white plug does not fit the engine brown plugs lol

So god knows what was going on there. Obviously a different engine sensor plug on that particular car.

 

Anyway I've noticed that the wires that go to the brown plugs that are connected to the dash loom are different numbered to the guides.

But looking at the wires that go to the brown plugs from the engine side (sensor) it seems to match, but not in the correct order.

 

Here is a picture of the brown plugs that would have gone to the engine side (sensors)

 

 

The wires on these plugs are as follows

 

9 pin plug

 

1 - No wire

2 - 112

3 - 47B

4 - 74A

5 - 7A

6 - No wire

7 - 47

8 - 69A

9 - 2 big black wires

 

6 pin plug

 

1 - 30

2 - No wire

3 - 30A

4 - No wire

5 - 47A

6 - 55A

7 - 30B

 

So it seems i have the wires i need but comparing to the guide they are mixed up between the plugs.

 

I guess as long as i wire this section to the Mi loom in the correct order it will be ok?

 

Quite an update but think i'm getting somewhere now as i can now match up everything.

 

Also the old engine (life support loom) in my car was phase 1, I've swapped this for a phase 1.5. Which should make things simpler.

Its back in the car now too.

 

Any suggestions guys would be great

 

Thanks

[smokey 0]

Bump

 

Any suggestions on this guys?

 

Just want to make sure the brown plugs are the correct ones before i start connecting the Mi loom to them.

 

Thanks

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

You have PM, eventually.

 

In short though, it's the connectivity that's important not the colour of plugs or orientation/numbering of the pins.

 

What I sent you shows that the Peugeot rules for the pin numbering standards on the 6 and 9 pin plugs were vague to say the least, so you must do a continuity check on each one to be absolutely sure.

 

For example, by applying some 12v to the dash loom, you can find all of the gauge and warning light wires simply by touch them to earth. The needles will go to max or the warning light will come on. You can almost see which ones are perm or switched live, ground or starter solenoid just by the thickness, even before you check the wire number and colour.

 

Once you've got the dash side wires sorted attack it from the engine component side. Find the sensor/sender wires first (most will be spade connectors), then there'll be the VR sensor (which like the ECU temp sender is part of the ECU loom anyway and you shouldn't have to clarify these) and the reverse switch connectors.

 

The solenoid wire will be the thickest (light blue probably) and then there should only be an earth (green/yellow with a ring terminal perhaps), a shielded tacho wire and yellow switched live. The relays for injs and FP should still be connected.

 

The FP wire (white 76) will be in the car anyway.

 

So really it's about continuing your slow, deliberate and methodical approach, wire at a time. There aren't that many really when you break it down into what they do. It just looks bad!

Edited October 30, 2009 by DrSarty