Bad News Regarding Peugeot Rear Beam Bearings

[Anthony 1,003]

I've feared that this has been on the cards for a while now, but it's been confirmed following a trip to my local dealer today to pickup a batch of rear beam rebuild parts - namely that Peugeot are no longer supplying OE spec bearings, and instead are supplying "GSF-spec" bearings with half the number of needles - in the same Peugeot packaging and with the same part number

 

They changed the inner bearings to this lesser spec a while back which was bad enough, but given the much reduced loading on the inner bearings, not too much of an issue. With the outer bearings changing to this lesser spec as well now however, that's a significant issue in my eyes, as my experience of them is that they fail prematurely and cause excessive wear/pitting on the shafts as you'd expect with the same load and far less contact points through which to support it.

 

With uprated torsion and anti-roll bars, the problem will be significantly worse too in my opinion, given that the original OE spec bearings were pretty borderline. Same goes for 306's and the like, which again, seem to be far heavier on the beam bearings than 205's are and will I suspect fair badly with these lesser-spec bearings.

 

I'm going to take one of the OE spec bearings to a local bearing supplier and see if they can still get bearings to that spec, otherwise it'll have to be something like the phosphor bronze bearings that gti-si has been selling recently once any remaining stock of the OE-spec bearings dries up. Thankfully I still have enough to do a few beams, but after that....

[jimistdt 1]

Can you tell me how many rollers are in the 'old spec please Anthony? (Both inner and outer?)

Edited September 30, 2009 by jimistdt

[Anthony 1,003]

Can you tell me how many rollers are in the 'old spec please Anthony? (Both inner and outer?)

I'll check when I get home from work later if no one with them to hand has done it already by then

[SurGie 54]

Sounds to me like they are doing it to make more money, when they wear out quicker and are most likely cheaper

to buy, or they have stopped making them due to costs etc.

This could be the start to many of 205/309 car parts, either stop being supplied by pug or change to worse parts.

Lets hope they don't go over board.

Edited September 30, 2009 by SurGie

[jason7579 5]

I have a friend who works for a bearings company - if you give me the exact details he will need I'll see what I can get and for how much

[Rippthrough 98]

Failing that I can have custom-made bearings done given enough orders, I've had several lots done before - usually need a minimum of 50 making though to make it worthwhile

Edited September 30, 2009 by Rippthrough

[Anthony 1,003]

Can you tell me how many rollers are in the 'old spec please Anthony? (Both inner and outer?)

Right, checked both the inner and outer bearings of both the original and new, lesser spec:

 

Inner bearings:

Originals have 35 needles and are made in France by Nadalla(I think, as the stamping is quite poor - part number is something like DB47937SE but some characters are almost illegible)

New ones have 30 needles and are made in Germany by Ina (F-202029.1 is the part number)

 

Outer bearings:

Originals have 45 needles and are made in France by Torrington (DR47260EE is the part number I think, but again, some of it is difficult to make out)

New ones have 30 needles and are made in Germany by Ina (F-92635 is the part number)

 

As you can see, the inner bearings aren't massively different and would in my opinion fair alright given the reduced loading on the inners, but the outer bearings are significantly different - the originals have 50% more needles on them than the new ones I'm pretty sure that if my memory serves me right, that I've seen different manufacturers of the original outer bearings - I'm sure that I've seen some Nadalla made ones at the very least.

[welshpug 1,658]

Nadella was the brand on the last separate ones I fitted, I cant say I noticed less rollers in the set I fitted for Alex (Boombang) only a month or two ago, those were the ones you buy in a set for a lot less than separately, I think they were INA.

 

I think just means we have to replace them more often, mind you Miles did comment that they last about ten years or so anyway, which isn't bad for £30's worth of bearings!

[Anthony 1,003]

Oh, and to further compound the issues, the needles on the original bearings are wider too! Wider needles will mean that the load is spread across a greater area of course, which is a good thing for longevity

 

On the inner bearing, the originals are approximately 13mm wide, whereas the new ones are approximately 10mm wide - the casings are the same width at 21mm.

 

On the outer bearing, the originals are approximately 14mm wide, whereas the new ones are approximately 12mm wide..... yet bizarrely, the new bearing casing is approximately 3mm wider than the original (21mm vs 24mm)

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Had this last week with a batch I got, There are some other bad ones on the market too now as a specialest fitted them incorectly which didn;t even have the seal on the outer edge's and where narrower still

If you could get 50 set's made, I;d have them all no problems

Edited September 30, 2009 by Miles

[swordfish210 20]

Theres a bearing supplier next door to my local motorfactor. I could probably get some OE spec ones from there but i'll have an ask next time i'm in the vicinity.

[jimistdt 1]

I've put a couple of feelers out, pretty sure we can get these at a comparable price and quality of Pug ones.

 

I'll post back when I've got a response.

[Anthony 1,003]

Nadella was the brand on the last separate ones I fitted, I cant say I noticed less rollers in the set I fitted for Alex (Boombang) only a month or two ago, those were the ones you buy in a set for a lot less than separately, I think they were INA.

 

I think just means we have to replace them more often, mind you Miles did comment that they last about ten years or so anyway, which isn't bad for £30's worth of bearings!

The ones I bought a couple of weeks back were still the original type, although they may have been in stock for a while. For what it's worth, the date code on the packaging of the new bearing is 28/07/2009

 

In my opinion, there is no way in hell that these newer bearings will last 10 years. I've pulled apart beams that have been refurbed previously (how well I don't know of course) using these lesser spec bearings, and almost without fail, they've been knackered - usually the shafts have deep pitting marks in them, even though usually the seals have held and there's plenty of grease. Realistically, I'd say a service life of 3-5 years maximum, and much less for a beam with uprated torsion and anti-roll bars - a couple of years, maybe?

[welshpug 1,658]

hmm, Bugger!

 

time to look for a reasonably priced alternative then, not everyone can afford bronze bushes but it may be necessary unless beams are to be stripped bi-annually.

[Anthony 1,003]

A picture speaks a thousand words as it were, so here's the difference between the original and new bearings - outers in the foreground, inners in the background...

 

 

The two outer bearings side-by-side showing the difference between the number of needles in the bearing...

 

 

And finally, a close-up of the original outer bearing part number that needs to be sourced elsewhere....

 

[jimistdt 1]

What if we could get something like this?

 

 

 

[Alastairh 47]

Good work Anthony. Your deffinatly right about the cheaper bearings. You know how many beams i've stripped, and the cheaper ones are always in worse for ware.

 

Now the race is on for someone to find a cheap supplier!

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

We (Anthony & me) discussed this a while ago when I rebuilt a beam & noticed the inner bearings were of the newer (worse) design with fewer narrower needle roller bearings but at that time the outers were still the better spec.

 

Shame to hear they've now also swapped to the cheaper worse spec ones.

 

I've been meaning to order some outer bearings from peugeot in hope I'd get some of the correct style but it would've been a risk.

 

Don't think I'll be bothering now, I can see a sudden increase in enquiries to local bearing stockists to see about getting the better spec ones or something better than those now being supplied by Peugeot.

 

Graham.

[Rippthrough 98]

Alright, I don't have the bearing dimensions myself, so if someone has them to hand, then I'll go about getting a quote for having some made and see if it can be done for reasonable money, whilst everybody searches to see if they can find an off-the-shelf replacement.

[James_m 0]

Is it purely a costing reason everyone is not going for plain bronze bearings?

[welshpug 1,658]

whilst trying to find the size of the bearings I found this -

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...l=beam++bearing

 

and finally found the dimensions -

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...l=beam++bearing

 

inner bearing as mentioned there can be made a lot wider.

[Rippthrough 98]

Is it purely a costing reason everyone is not going for plain bronze bearings?

 

Personally I'm not switching due to the extra stiction - my car tends to be sat doing nothing for a while whilst I repair it - even a constantly used Phosphor Bronze bearing has ~20 times the stiction of a roller bearing, if they're left a while so the grease creeps out it's much more until the fresh grease gets worked back around - besides which, I can't be arsed to revalve my dampers to suit

Edited September 30, 2009 by Rippthrough

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Its not a cost thing for me, I've run my car with a 309 GTI beam using phosphur outer bearings for three + years & it spends more time sat than being used due to being a second / track car but even though the bushes / arms weren't especially stiff after being stood it is much nicer with free rolling bearings since I swapped back to a 205 beam.

 

It mentions in the Haynes workshop manual two different types of inner bearings being used in the rear beams, plain & needle.

 

I wonder what the plain bearings were like? (page 194 para 8).

 

Graham.

[jimistdt 1]

Would that be the radius arm shaft? Thats a type of bearing isn't it?

[Rippthrough 98]

Probably a phosphor-bronze one