Mi16 With No Power

[ricky1.9 0]

Agreed, Injectors non standard would be my first port of call to eliminate, even the 6 month old fuel should not cause the current issues, fuel sat in my car when exported from Cyprus to UK for nearly 8 months (dont ask Cyprus import regs for kit cars are a joke) and it still ran fine.

 

My 205 ran like a dog when i got it, didnt want to rev past 4k rpm, plugs looked like brand new...

 

Cleaned injectors, misfire showed its face, sorted ignition leads etc, now goes like stink!

 

The usual suspects are your normal items to eiliminate!

 

How many poor running 205's in the past have ended up being duff ignition leads! Bloomin fussy f***ers with leads in my experience...

 

 

 

Leads are brand new, well coming up to year old now but haven't really done any work as bought these at beginning of project.

[Galifrey 1]

Leads are brand new, well coming up to year old now but haven't really done any work as bought these at beginning of project.

 

Yeah, sorry was speaking generically... I hold with my injector theory hehe

 

Let us know how it goes.

[ricky1.9 0]

caution! there are 2 types of 2.0-8v injectors!

the ones from the marelli are low-impedance-injectors and need to be driven by a pwm-capable ecu and not directly as the bosch ecus do.

if you connect a bosch ecu at them, nasty things will happen!

i dont know whether the bosch ecus with the 2.0 8v engine use normal high impedance ones, but i think they do.

 

there are also black bosch-injectors that usually come from the 102bhp DKZ-engine (xu10j2) and have less flow rate than the yellow ones.

with the bosch-number on the side you can find out what they should flow.

 

 

excuse my lack of knowledge, but what is a 'Marelli' ?

 

any way of finding whether these are them? Bosch numer on side?

 

 

What nasty things things? broken things?

 

and...what does pwm stand for?

 

thanks

[ricky1.9 0]

Yeah, sorry was speaking generically... I hold with my injector theory hehe

 

Let us know how it goes.

 

will do - thanks for help

[ricky1.9 0]

Right...I'm back from the workshop and ive got my beer.

 

I changed over the injectors tonight to 1.9 injectors. These used to be okay when i ran these so should give no problems...but the problem still appers to be there.

 

I have also fitted the bolts correctly to the inlet manifold.

I have also tried another coil, changer the fuel reg.

 

All no change.

 

2 things which are still niggling me about this which it might be are

Dirty fuel

low fuel pressure (as am running 1.6 pump - not sure if i need to up this to 1.9 or Mi pump)

 

However i have other symptoms as well.(which are not new just not mentioned until now)

Very high oil pressure(according to gauge)

Coolant bubbling out of expansion tank

 

I will try to change the fuel at the weekend.

 

Anyone have the best way to drain fuel? 12v on pump and pump it through?

[philfingers 5]

sounds like you should run a compression check to start with to find out if you've got a head gasket leak

I see 100psi on my mechanical gauge when it first starts, drops to around 70psi warm at 4k. That's with a 6bar spring

Yes run a feed to the pump is fine and a big bucket of course! Changing the fuel is an easy option, rules another thing out

[ricky1.9 0]

sounds like you should run a compression check to start with to find out if you've got a head gasket leak

I see 100psi on my mechanical gauge when it first starts, drops to around 70psi warm at 4k. That's with a 6bar spring

Yes run a feed to the pump is fine and a big bucket of course! Changing the fuel is an easy option, rules another thing out

 

which spring are you talking about?

 

I did do a compression test and all cylinders are equal at around 160psi. this is not revving up just is idle. almost reached 200 on start up.

This is with a basic gauge from good ol' Halfords

[philfingers 5]

I'm talking oil pressure relief spring. 200 is way too high, BUT you need to be sure this is correct. What does it run at once it gets warm? Maybe the spring is sticking?

[ricky1.9 0]

I'm talking oil pressure relief spring. 200 is way too high, BUT you need to be sure this is correct. What does it run at once it gets warm? Maybe the spring is sticking?

 

 

200 is just what is jumps to as sson as i turn it over but idles at 160psi whichi thought was about right?? if i was seeing below 150 i would have been concerned but are you saying that a healthy engine should be at 75-100psi?

 

the oil pressure guage does lead me to beleive there is a stiffer spring on the oil pump or it is sticking as the pressure is very high. it does come down after a while but shoots right back up again when engine is revved.

I also thought that this could be blocked breather.

 

 

I will get the car warm again today and redo the compression.

 

I will also change the fuel.

 

 

Should the 1.6 fuel pump be sufficient for the Mi ?

 

 

cheers

Edited September 27, 2009 by ricky1.9

[ricky1.9 0]

I'm talking oil pressure relief spring. 200 is way too high, BUT you need to be sure this is correct. What does it run at once it gets warm? Maybe the spring is sticking?

 

Just found Receipt for Group A oil spring amongst engine receipts from AB Motorsports - so this would make sense then.

 

What advantages does this give though? surely this makes chases of blowing a seal far greater.

Edited September 27, 2009 by ricky1.9

[Cameron 16]

Are you doing you compression test with the engine running!?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Are you doing you compression test with the engine running!?

 

I thought that ^^.

 

OK: so the injector swap didn't fix it, but is it still running as before i.e. massively rich? What colour are the exhaust gases?

 

The 1.6 fuel pump - providing it's working fine (which it clearly is) - is fine for your 1.9 Mi. It's fine for my 2.2 with GTI6 injectors and I have a standard FPR too.

 

Are you sure it's petrol and not a duff mix in the tank? Anyway: as suggested it's worth eliminating now the injector swap hasn't worked.

 

Are you letting the engine get hot running in this state? It seems you are mentioning bubbling coolant, or do you mean warm coolant with lots of air bubbles in?

 

We really need to draw a line and start again here, with exactly what this engine's had done to it, what you are working with and how it runs.

 

With all things known, and if fresh fuel makes no odds, I personally feel that now a 1-for-1 ECU swap with a known working one is required.

Edited September 27, 2009 by DrSarty

[jengis 0]

Sorry, can't offer any help. But I would be interested to know the bosche number on the black injectors.

Cheers.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Sorry, can't offer any help. But I would be interested to know the bosche number on the black injectors.

Cheers.

 

They're not Bosch, they're Weber. He has another thread with a picture, and I'm not convinced they show the part number either.

[ricky1.9 0]

Are you doing you compression test with the engine running!?

 

er...yeah did this time. is this bad thing or just false readings? if i think about it it doesn't sound right doing it with engine running.

 

what psi should i expect (with engine not running)?

[ricky1.9 0]

OK: so the injector swap didn't fix it, but is it still running as before i.e. massively rich? What colour are the exhaust gases?

 

I would say it's not runnig as rich as it was before but still a bit too rich - haven'tchecked plug state since and the exhaust gasses are invisible

 

Are you sure it's petrol and not a duff mix in the tank? Anyway: as suggested it's worth eliminating now the injector swap hasn't worked.

 

Fresh stuff put in today and is still playing about - no difference

 

Are you letting the engine get hot running in this state? It seems you are mentioning bubbling coolant, or do you mean warm coolant with lots of air bubbles in?

 

Yes running the engine till hot. engine has got hot enough to switch fan on. no air bubbles, water bubbling over but i think this is as should be i'm just being paranoid now.

 

We really need to draw a line and start again here, with exactly what this engine's had done to it, what you are working with and how it runs.

 

I did try to do this from the start of the thread but will re-cap

 

With all things known, and if fresh fuel makes no odds, I personally feel that now a 1-for-1 ECU swap with a known working one is required.

 

I think your right - i changed the fuel today, no change. it is hard to describe the fault as is behaving a bit different everytime. for example todayafter the fuel change I held the throttle open in one position (by the cable on the body) and the revs were dancing up and down consistantly.

 

later started it it and reved right past 4.5 K before it would start messing around but i was being aggressive with the throttle.

 

cheers doc.

[ricky1.9 0]

right re-cap:

 

Engine:

1.9 Mi from bx

group a oil spring

new belt

new leads,plugs,cap, rotor arm

new Crank Position Sensor

MI16 AFM

1.9 injectors

 

car:

1.6 K plate

all working very well before conversion

 

I have tried changing:

Coil

Ignition amp

ECU coolant sensor

fuel regulator

Throttle position sensor

AFM changed to 1.6(worse) and 1.9 (can't remember whether worse or same while ago now)

Crank Position Sensor

Fuel!

 

 

Cableloom is mix of BX and 1.6

 

 

behavior:

firing all over the place. Sometimes when foot is stamped to the floor the engine will just choke itself and almost stall.

when held at constant throttle position revs dance consistantly up and down

sometimes can rev up to 4.5 before misfiring starts

It is like the timing is out and is retarded too much. i have checked and double cheked the belt.

Also oil pressure is very high but assuming that this is because of the Gp A oils pump spring.

[kyepan 291]

sorry to butt in late... have you looked at caps?

[ricky1.9 0]

sorry to butt in late... have you looked at caps?

 

not sure what caps is to be honest

[kyepan 291]

do a search,

 

it's a trouble shooting program ( like an online service manual ) for the motronic engine management found in the Mi-16.

 

you'll need a multimeter (from what you've said it sounds like you need to check some of the ignition components ) to go over things, it's well written and explains in simple terms how to diagnose each component. If you've spent over a year trying to get to run, a couple of hours with a multimeter will probably give you some solid facts about how well your engine management system is operating.

 

quite a few important bits are operated by variable resistors, the AFM, air temp sensor, coolant temp sensor, and these are easily checked and rectified. Plus everything else needs good voltage, and a good earth.

 

some stuff is a bit more tricky, but caps covers it.

 

hopefully this will give you some much needed progress, post up once you have some results.

 

J

 

edit... searched for you clicky

Edited September 27, 2009 by kyepan

[ricky1.9 0]

do a search,

 

it's a trouble shooting program ( like an online service manual ) for the motronic engine management found in the Mi-16.

 

you'll need a multimeter (from what you've said it sounds like you need to check some of the ignition components ) to go over things, it's well written and explains in simple terms how to diagnose each component. If you've spent over a year trying to get to run, a couple of hours with a multimeter will probably give you some solid facts about how well your engine management system is operating.

 

quite a few important bits are operated by variable resistors, the AFM, air temp sensor, coolant temp sensor, and these are easily checked and rectified. Plus everything else needs good voltage, and a good earth.

 

some stuff is a bit more tricky, but caps covers it.

 

hopefully this will give you some much needed progress, post up once you have some results.

 

J

 

will do, thanks for that J, will check it out and hopefully get somewhere.

[large 33]

AFM changed to 1.6(worse) and 1.9 (can't remember whether worse or same while ago now)

 

You need to be running a Mi AFM.

[kyepan 291]

You need to be running a Mi AFM.

i was going to say, it sounds like the AFM but didn't want to guess.

[pug309twin40s 1]

what make is the rotor arm and cap??

 

i had similar problems that you described when i fitted a new dizzy cap and rotor arm(intermotor make) to my mi16 goodwood and it run similar to your symtoms. refitted the original rotor arm and everything was fine again.

[ricky1.9 0]

what make is the rotor arm and cap??

 

i had similar problems that you described when i fitted a new dizzy cap and rotor arm(intermotor make) to my mi16 goodwood and it run similar to your symtoms. refitted the original rotor arm and everything was fine again.

 

beru ?? someting like that