Excessive Engine Movement

[Maccer 0]

I have what I feel to be a problem with excessive engine movement on my car ('89 1.6). Crawling along up to traffic lights in 2nd without any throttle and the engine would rock backwards and forwards - kangarooing up the road. So bad I would have to coast up to a junction if the revs were any lower than 2500-3000. I have put all new standard OE engine mounts on the but this hasn't really cured it. I also put a new vac advance can on the dizzy and this has defintely smoothed it out a lot, but it still feels like there is too much movement. If you come off the throttle hard there is still a big slapping sensation as the engine whacks back the other way, and it is still a little kangaroo-ey when crawling along . I tried the BBM group N mounts (before I put the standards on) - and they were much better, but I have a sunroof shell and just couldn't live with the noise they made as it’s a standard road car. I knew when I swapped them to the standards it wouldn't feel as tight, but I thought they would be better than they are - especially as they're all new ones.

Is there anything I'm missing here?

[sport1901966 8]

If it was me I would be wondering about the fuel mixture, if you can try a known good AFM in place of yours might be a good place to start, I'm no expert in 205's running characteristics though so I'm sure someone with more experience may be able to offer some advice.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I'd put the BBM stuff back and persevere. They are certainly noisy to begin with, but do noticeable "bed in" over a couple of thousand miles to the point that you don't really notice any extra noise. Also check your shafts for play- if these are worn you will notice a driveline "shunt" especially when on/off the throttle in traffic etc.

[Maccer 0]

I had heard that the BBMs do quieten down, but as I only do about 3-4k a year in the car I wasn't sure that I'd be able to hack it for six months! I have sold them on now anyway so its not really an option.

Both driveshafts were replaced with re-manf ones about 4k ago so they are fine, all the subframe bolts are nice and tight and I set the fuel mix on the AFM with the sniffer at the MOT place recently so tick over mix should be spot on. It does just seem like there's too much play on the mounts.

[woodsy 0]

Try adjusting the throttle switch as usually when below 1500rpm this is when the fuel gets cut off due to the switch so adjust it so it doesnt and it helps loads

in the jerkiness at low revs

[welshpug 1,657]

that is totally wrong, you shouldn't do that!

 

get it running properly, i.e start from scratch with the throttle settings etc (as documented in the haynes manual, not just by fiddling with the screw on the AFM) and you can eliminate the kangarooing if the engine mounts and ignition/injection components are all in good order.

Edited September 22, 2009 by welshpug

[Pob 1]

Mine had some serious kangarooing before I swapped the AFM.

 

Dan

[Maccer 0]

Sorry for digging this old post up but I think I've got it more or less sorted now. A big part of the problem was the spacers (or lack of) on the top mount buffer stops.

I was hunting around our local scrappy and they had a late phase 2 1.6 auto in there. I looked at the top mount and there was barely no movement, the buffers were right up against the metal arm, whereas on mine I remembered there was a gap of about 1/3" showing. I thought these stops on the auto must be bigger so I got them off and took them home. However, when I got them back there seemed to be no difference between the ones I'd taken off the auto and the new ones I'd got recently from Pug. And infact both seemed to be a few mm smaller than the old ones I'd taken off.

 

(Mine before I started)

 

Was then leafing through the Haynes book for something else and came across a pic of the engine bay on an early Gti showing the top mount. Lo and behold there are metal spacers behind the buffers on both sides. They looked like proper parts in the picture and a look on servicebox confirmed that they did indeed use spacers on earlier models, and they are listed with a part number (184112) for £8.17inc.

 

 

I wasn't sure if they meant £8.17 each or £8.17 for a box of them, but as it's the main stealer I guessed it would be the former! So I went round my mates and made a few plates out of some combine harvester and beetle floorpan he had kicking around. With these now in place the movement is down to a much more acceptable level, and it doesn't sound like the engine is trying to snap the RH driveshaft every time I come off the throttle!

 

 

I know this fix is nothing new as I had read a few posts before with people saying they had washered up the top mount buffers, but until I saw that Haynes picture I was always under the impression this was a bit of a bodge and not a proper fix. Seems that pug themselves used to do the same thing, before settling on the idea that they could just make the metal U mount section the right size on all their cars!

Edited January 11, 2010 by Maccer

[jackherer 543]

I know this fix is nothing new as I had read a few posts before with people saying they had washered up the top mount buffers, but until I saw that Haynes picture I was always under the impression this was a bit of a bodge and not a proper fix. Seems that pug themselves used to do the same thing, before settling on the idea that they could just make the metal U mount section the right size on all their cars!

 

Nice find, I too thought the washers were something we did when fitting Mi16s etc not a proper Peugeot solution let alone an actual part number

[Baz 421]

I've always seen the washer/spacers and thought they must be fitted for some reason, shell differences or something so bigger gaps...? And i thought that Magnex manifolds came with spacers too to stop the engine moving excessively and cracking the manifold or bashing on the bulkhead etc.

 

But i've added them for years tbh, seems a better idea;

 

 

 

 

But i will add, are your new standard engine mounts Pug OE ones? as i know some of the aftermarket ones are sh!te and allow more movement than even standard pug ones.

[Maccer 0]

But i will add, are your new standard engine mounts Pug OE ones? as i know some of the aftermarket ones are sh!te and allow more movement than even standard pug ones.

 

Yeah, all my new ones were from the dealer. The buffers I got from the dealer were exactly the same as the ones I took of the J reg auto in the scrappy and were 2-3mm shorter than the old ones I had on there - (there's an old one on the right in my first pic, vs a new one - not that you can really tell from that though!) Although even with the older style buffers which were a bit bigger I needed the spacers too, part of the reason I ended up doing all my engine mounts!

As you say it must just be shell differences on early ones, meaning different amounts of spacers. Then by the time they got to the late phase 2s they made that mount section the right size and did away with the spacers.

 

Interesting that you fit a 3rd buffer on yours.. I wouldn't have thought there was that much lateral movement? Although I suppose it depends on how hard you are throwing it into those corners!

Edited January 12, 2010 by Maccer

[Baz 421]

Interesting that you fit a 3rd buffer on yours.. I wouldn't have thought there was that much lateral movement? Although I suppose it depends on how hard you are throwing it into those corners!

 

The 3rd buffer's an old trick as done on many competition cars for years.

 

Quite surprising the amount of lateral movement, as many 16v converted 205 owners will agree as they've probably experienced the foot massage you get upon heavy right cornering if there's not alot of room between the MC and cam covers!

[Bottrill 0]

Worth noting guys that I have just picked up a pack of 10 spacers/washers that will do the job perfectly from B&Q. They were £1.98. I will be using these when i put the BBM mount on in the next week or so.

 

Lee.

[205*31* 0]

does anyone know what these spacers/washers are from B&Q been to have a look today but staff have no idea what I am looking for or anything that could do job.

 

cheers.

[Masekwm 2]

Just some washers, or a bit of metal.