S16 Conversion

[Craigb 2]

I am considering a S16 conversion, and have read a lot of good things abouth the engines, what I am asking , are there any pitfalls , or things to consider with this engine/ car combination.

 

I know it will be heavier than what i have in at the moment , but would like some opinions of the engine .

 

cheers

 

Craig

[johnrobertgordon 0]

So far after driving this one I have to say I think its a pretty good engine. This one is set up wrong and is a little speratic, however When on song it pulls well and was solid on track last week.

My gut feeling is the Acav seup is overly complicated for no real game. However I never tried it setup properly.

A lot of the euro boys bolt big turbos to them on pretty standard bottom ends so the strength of them is proven. Head had some big revisions too from what i have read.

[calvinhorse 870]

do it

[Anthony 1,003]

Good fundamental engine - basically a 1.9 Mi16 with bigger lungs and less surge issues - but rubbish management and ancillary parts IMO.

 

Run the basic engine on a 1.9 Mi inlet and management however, and it's great.

 

Bare in mind that the blocks wear badly if servicing is neglected, and that they can and do spit out big-end shells for fun much like 1.9 Mi16's - I'd replace them as a matter of course before fitting.

[jackherer 543]

Run the basic engine on a 1.9 Mi inlet and management however, and it's great.

 

I couldn't agree more. Also, the exhaust manifold isn't up to much either IMO, its well worth fitting a 4-2-1 aftermarket one.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Or if my old S16 comes out OK run it with a Aftermarket plug in ECU on a GTi6 inlet, TB and injectors. Results will be seen soon

[Craigb 2]

Thanks for the feedback chaps

 

The reasoning behind the request is to try and take away some of teh disadvantage's that I currently have with my engine and some of teh handicaps i have as a driver .

 

The back ground to teh ideas was inspiration after reading Dr Sarty's thread on his 2.2 . The car runs in road rally trim , which has restrictions of single plenum injection , which rule out TB's etc. what i am allowed to do is increase the capacity .

The quick cars around teh EMAMC championship are all around the 190-200 hp , we are talking 2.1 , 2.3 pinto escorts on split 48s red top Astra's , on top of that you have a gaggle of guys in very stable protons that do very well over teh rough terrain .

 

The combination of me and my car can get around the top 5-10 depending on errors fog , or just brain fade .

The limitation mainly being me .

In my mind , I no longer have the balls I used to have , this is down to experiencing too many accidents , and realising that they hurt , and that recovering from them is taking a little longer than it used to when i was 20 .

At the end of teh day I'm no Ari Vatanen , and have reached to teh limit of how fast i want o go around a corner where there might be a sheep or cow or bemused resident in teh middle of the road with a baseball bat ( yes it does happen , only last weekend).

So there are a few options left , the one i am aiming at is torque , i want to get up the hills faster.

 

So with that in mind and teh limitation of teh plenum/ injection , this is where the discussion of options begins.

Extra CC , definitely

16V now allowed , so why not

Transferring teh emerald from my current car . Yes

Possibly starting from a new car as my shell is on its last legs.

 

Decisions , decisions... Thanks for the input

Edited September 14, 2009 by Craigb

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

You're gonna hate me for this, but what idea of budget do you have?

 

It's great that you have the Emerald but of course you'll need ~£300 for a remap.

 

I said to you via PM that I have no idea at what point a standard GTI6 inlet including TB becomes a restriction. That I would be very interested to learn.

 

I speculated with you (nuts on block) that I reckon if built correctly, and at no doubt some serious cost, a BIG cc S16 block could start knocking on the door of 250bhp, as that's what the head will allow. Whether the '6 TB will allow this is another issue.

 

Bigger injectors I suspect may be needed too, as that sounds like approaching the limits of the GTI6 ones.

 

All of the ideas and parts and know-how exist. Hence I ask about budget.

[welshpug 1,661]

I said to you via PM that I have no idea at what point a standard GTI6 inlet including TB becomes a restriction. That I would be very interested to learn.

 

200+ easily, same throttle body as used on the ES9J4, aka 3.0 V6.

 

Also the same throttle body as use on the 240 bhp BTCC engines as far as I know, they may even have been running smaller TOCA units!

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Well, ask me in a few weeks when I've done my mi16->S16 swap. Mind you, I'll be on TB's and it's not been done to a budget really (brand new Longman built unit) so probably not a very fair comparison. Still, I'm interested to see how the two lumps compare, even if the two are not like-for-like spec wise.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

That's interesting then Mei and supports what I thought.

 

Then it's a case of big and strong internals. If Craig has the budget, and if my maths are right, then:

 

S16 block with 88mm bore (which seems to be safe) on a 96mm ( ) crank (which I think you can get from Denmark) =

 

(88/2)^2 x 22/7 x 96 x 4 = 2,337cc.

 

With the S16 head sorted, he can run sequential spark and ignition and run some decent aftermarket exhaust.

 

That would have huge grunt, but may still rev OK, and should absolutely fly. But at what cost?

 

Nice big sparks wouldn't go a-miss either . Want some Chevy LS2 coils x 4 Craig? .

[Saveit 0]

I have a 2.4 L from Alternative Engineering here in Denmark. Although the stroke is 98mm (i believe) its a revy beast. It pulls like a train and it really revs up fast.

[Craigb 2]

Budget , now there's a question .

my first reaction would be , it depends on how long the build takes .

 

I would like to start with something that is fairly solid.

Not pushing the boundary into the realms of 250 hp as the rest of the drive train has to cope as well ,also preferably parts should be available in the UK .

 

I suppose the pistons, crank , cams machining will be taking up the bulk of the initial outlay .

 

Haven't really answered the question yet , as I Don't really know. As long as my current engine is running , this could well be a project that runs till its finished as funds allow.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Remember I'm no expert, but I would say there'll be no major need to f*ck about with the head. Decent 3 or 4 cut valve seats and everything freshened up that's all.

 

Even your cams won't need to be too lairy; I have 230bhp on a stage I inlet only. You may want to look at something like a PeterT stage I on the inlet and a stage II on the exhaust. And lifters could stay hydraulic even.

 

I'm just trying to help you spend wisely, or to put it another way, how I would if I was doing it again but bigger and better.

 

You'd want about £500 on the head and cams. Verniers £20-£200. Forged pistons up to £700. Block work £600-£700. All figures approx. The rest you can do.

 

Diff (if you don't have it already) £600. Custom driveshafts perhaps £400. Exhaust £400-£600.

 

I won't add it up as I don't know exactly what you have already or have access to on the sly.

 

Would be an absolute belter though. Ref the crank, I always make that mistake. I believe the 98mm one from Denmark is custom, but the 96mm one MAY be an off the shelf item or even available 2nd hand.

 

Rich

Edited September 14, 2009 by DrSarty