[engine_work] Mi16 With Bottom End Knock I

[sport1901966 8]

Hi Everyone

 

Welcome to my 205 1.9 8v to 1.9 Mi16 (D6C) conversion, it’s going to be a mixture of work really – bit of engine rebuilding, bit of chassis/susp overhaul and obviously the conversion, added to as and when bits are done. I know this has been done many a time now but thought some people may enjoy the 10 minutes of work time it may kill!

 

A bit of background – we start with a G reg 1.9 GTi pretty rough mechanically and not the best in terms of bodywork but fairly sound on the rust side of things. It’s sat on my parents drive for the best part of 4 years and I’ve been itching to do the Mi conversion for ages now, just always putting it off due to not living at home/not having the money to support it. Well holiday from uni was coming around and I had some money saved so there became no reason not to get stuck in!

 

I found an engine that was out of an already converted 205 with literally everything I would need (including a 4-2-1 manifold and full exhaust system) the only downside being it had just developed a bottom end knock. A short phone call and a trip to oxford and I was on the way home with a lighter wallet and my first Mi.

 

 

When I got it home the first thing I did was strip off the engine mount, starter, alternator, inlet etc

 

This is the first engine I have stripped to this degree and more importantly taken an engine out of a car let alone doing a conversion, so you will be seeing labels on everything!

 

P.S. I am taking loads of photos along the way so if anybody is looking for anything in particular let me know and I'll see what I can do!

Edited August 26, 2009 by sport1901966

[sport1901966 8]

I then set about stripping the bottom end.

 

Sump was easy as the guy I bought the engine from had already had the sump off to investigate the knocking and only put a couple of bolts back in. I also noted the temp sensor wiring had to be cut so I made up a spade connecter when I set to work on the wiring loom. Also plenty of silicone sealant to clean off too, does anyone have any tips for this? I have heard the sumps are difficult to seal up are there any trade secrets to this?

 

After this the oil pump came out, how much is a new one of these - is it worth replacing to be safe?

 

 

Then the sump spacer came off

 

 

Mains Cap 3 - don't forget the bolts through the side of the block!

 

[sport1901966 8]

Next up were the rod caps and the evidence of the cause of the knocking.

 

 

The rod and cap big end surfaces and bearings were ok on cylinder 1 and not too bad on 3 but were not good on 2 and I don’t need to even tell you about 4!

 

2

 

 

4!!!

 

Edited August 26, 2009 by sport1901966

[sport1901966 8]

After this I took out the crank, I had to use a massive breaker bar with an impact socket after splitting 3 standard ones to undo the crank pulley bolt - I expect being this tight was as a precaution to ensure it doesn't become loose and allow the oil pump drive sprocket to loose friction.

 

 

And yes I forgot about the side bolts on the 3rd mains cap

 

Based on the state of the bearings the crank will almost definitely need a re-grind but it doesn't look in too bad condition "fingers crossed"!

 

Crank out -

 

 

I then got everything else of the block bar the pistons and liners (sensors/tensioners/waterpump etc)

 

 

BELOW: Green sender is oil pressure warning light and the one next to it is for the oil pressure sensor, they work by earthing the lights/gauges on the dash

 

 

The dipstick tube just pulls out

Edited August 26, 2009 by sport1901966

[hexhamstu 9]

Great project thread. Keep up the good work.

[sport1901966 8]

Next job was to strip down the head. Cams seemed in good condition as did the inlet valves and seats (although I am going for three angle seats as part of the rebuild) the exhaust valves had quite a build up of carbon and the sealing surfaces and valve seats were fairly pitted. The inlet guides had no wear whatsoever as I could feel and the exhaust guides were barely any worse.

 

There was a very small amount of corrosion on the gasket face but I think I've been lucky with the engine as its in pretty good condition - or was until the big end problems!

 

One job I hate is removing stem seals although I did seem to get a technique by the 8th or 9th one - put some duck tape around a follower with the sticky side out then slide it into the follower bore to protect it, then, using fat flat headed pliers (longer heads will be better) grip the seal and twist left and right whlst pulling upwards.

 

 

 

 

Exhaust Valve

 

 

Inlet Valve

 

 

So much for bargin pliers! -

 

Edited August 27, 2009 by sport1901966

[sport1901966 8]

Great project thread. Keep up the good work.

 

Thanks chap, good to know people will enjoy it/find it useful

[sport1901966 8]

I then thought it would be appreciated if I cleaned the block before it went for machining so I set to it.

 

 

It also seemed a good time to tackle the loom - the key to this was plenty of research, the first thing I learnt was that its a Citroen BX loom (lots of green wires and about 100ft long!). When I got the engine I was given every loom in the car - 3 bin bags full so I had no idea what was what, I decided the best way would be to find out what sensors the ECU requires and label each plug on the loom as to where it goes, I did this by using the CAPS software, it has a diagram of the Motronic 4.1 ECU pin layout and their connections so using a multimeter I set to finding which plugs went to which pins on the ECU, this then told me what wires needed to be connected to the car for the conversion -

 

Fuel Pump

 

 

Ignition Switched Live and Tacho - On the ECU loom they both got to a white 2 pin plug (ign live - yellow, tacho - green)

- I found an old white female 2 pin plug to fix the 2 wires from the "Dash Sender Loom"

 

 

Permanent Live

 

 

There are 4 looms involved in the conversion - the main "ECU loom" which connects to the "dash sender loom" (via the fuel pump wire, ignition switched live and the tacho wire) and the "injector/cts/icv/tps loom", the forth is the "+ve output and dash sender loom" from the battery to alternator and also contains some of the dash senders (this loom connects to the dash sender loom).

 

Once I had all this figured out I tidied up/repaired the loom where required. Including adding a spade connector to the oil temp sender in the sump. I then test wired all the looms together -

 

 

I have many pics of this so feel free to ask if you need anything.

[sport1901966 8]

As the engine was all stripped it was time to take it off for machining, I'm going for a full rebuild and with that in mind dropped the engine off in bits to be checked over. I turns out I need to new rods, which hopefully I have managed to source courtesy of Miles and I'm waiting for final confirmation that the crank is ok for a re-grind, fingers well and truely crossed!

 

As I've got the 4-2-1 manifold I've requested 3 angle valve seats and also will be fitting ARP rod bolts. For the sake of time and cleanliness I've asked for the head to be re-assembled at QEP but I'll be doing the block myself so any hints tips and pearls of wisdom will be more than appreciated!

 

The other thing I am painfully aware of is the oil surge issue, accepting i can't solve it without dry sumping it I want to get a sump baffle fitted, could anyone recommend one and where to buy them! Would this be what I'm looking for -

 

eBay Baffle

[rubyna 4 1 Cars]

Hi mate Great project will be watching with interest!! Yes that is the sump baffle you want but dont go paying money like that, they often come up for sale on here for much cheaper put a wanted ad up for a - GTI6 or modified sump including a trap door) plus while your at it perhaps consider to extend the oil pump pick-up approx 12-15mm, peter-t sells them on this forum ..

Edited August 27, 2009 by rubyna

[welshpug 1,657]

Oil pump should be fine but there is a check you can carry out that's shown in the haynes manual IIRC.

 

being a 1.9 it'll have a 5 bar pressure spring, you can upgrade this to a 6 bar spring from any XU10 engine, best plac to buy the spring is Peugoet/Citroen for about £1.30, not the £10 from ebay and other "reputable" sources

[sport1901966 8]

Thanks for that guys, very useful info. Here's the next installment

 

As the engine side of things is taking care of itself now, and I have the loom pretty much sorted, the next thing I thought I'd do was to make a start on getting the 205 ready. I already had the head off so this reduced the engine removal time, just coolant pipes, alternator etc loom, driveshafts, speedo cable, oil cooler plate, clutch cable and engine mounts and it was free. I then dropped it down and pulled the engine and 'box out underneath. Easy!

 

 

Much emptier bay!

 

 

Split the gearbox - wish it was this easy in the car!

 

 

 

The 'box was covered in crap and took a fair amount of effort to get clean, one of those times when a pressure washer teamed up with Gunk really comes into its own. I have a feeling it's gonna get a lot more use too.

 

 

I then decided I'd paint it so I got some hammerite silver smooth from halfords. In hindsight I think I may have wasted my time to some degree due to not taking my time a doing a proper job (impatience is not always a virtue!) although the conditions weren't on my side either. I have a feeling the paint may peel off.

 

Does anyone have any painting/prep tips for gearboxes and engines if I end up having to do it again! Is hammerite the best stuff to use?

 

Edited August 28, 2009 by sport1901966

[sport1901966 8]

I plan to strip the engine bay down as much as necessary to tidy up any rust and give it all a good clean. I'll also been cleaning up any threads and replacing any bolts that need it, which I expect will be a few!

 

As you may have gathered I am learning my way through this process so any advice/proven methods for dealing with any rust would be more than welcome!

 

With that in mind the next job was bumper off -

 

I hit a few issues through the process that were mainly siezed bolts. The mushrooms on the side brackets were stuck solid so out came the grinder/BFO Hammer. In fact I only undid one bolt the conventional way throughout the whole job!

 

It begins

 

 

Two bolts to be undone just under the headlights on the inside - one of mine was missing and the other had pulled through the bumper.

 

 

 

Unplug the Driving Lamp wiring (Pass side plug was up behind headlight)

 

 

There are bolts that hold the driving lamp brackets to the chassis which in my case niether were attached!

 

 

Last thing is to loosen the mushroom support clampy thingy bolts on the side brackets (alternatively attack with grinder and large hammer!)

 

 

No more bumper!

 

[sport1901966 8]

Now for the rad, fan cowling, oil cooler and slam panel.

 

Rad out first - just a case of disconnecting coolant pipes, unclipping wiring from thermoswitch and lifting the clips at the top and out it comes.

 

Next thing is the oil cooler - three nuts need to come off the mounting bracket to the rad cowling, theres also a nut and bolt that holds the oil cooler pipes bracket to the rad cowling.

 

To get the cowling out it's just 2 bolts into the slam panel and unplug the fan wiring, it's easier to now unbolt the slam panel - 4 bolts, 2 at each end, lift it up then pull the cowling forward and out.

 

Here it all is out

 

 

And heres the even emptier bay

 

 

Below are a few pics of the rust I have found, nothing to bad at all which is a result

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2009 by sport1901966

[maturin23 10]

Good stuff - well documented project thread!

Nice one.

[sport1901966 8]

Time for another update!

 

Since the last post I've done more stripping down of the front end - amazed how quick things start coming off once your on a roll, reminiscent of my little RC car!

 

I've taken out the steering rack to give more access for the rust repairs - nice and easy, 2 bolts through the sub-frame, undo the track rod ends, loosen the steering column intermediate shaft clamp bolt and slide out (remember to mark the position of the steering column splines for re-assembly.

 

I also took out the struts complete with hubs/discs etc just because for the sake of 3 top mount bolts a side the resulting access just made life easier.

 

It was then time for a good helping of gunk and a blast with the pressure washer, the result was a very crud free engine bay - much nicer to work with! This did however reveal a few more rusty patches on the subframe so it'll also be getting the rust treatment.

 

To also help access for the rust repair I needed to remove the servo/MC etc. with no engine etc in this was not difficult although getting to the nuts in the footwell is not the easist of jobs.

 

When I got the servo out it seems there has been a master cylinder leak at some point (not the current one as I replaced it recently) and the servo was amazingly full of fluid - probably more than enough to fill the reservoir again. I have most of it out but there is some still left I can't get out. What would you chaps do in this situation - take apart? Replace? Ignore?

 

Anyway,

 

This is my anti-rust arsenal!

 

 

This is something I haven't done before and I'm the first to admit I'm not the most patient with bodywork but I'm pleased with the work so far - finish not being critical as it's the engine bay.

 

My first step was attacking the rust - a mains powered drill and various wire brush attachments made this a fairly easy and very satisfying job.

 

When I had got back to bare metal the next step is the 'conversion coat' (I used Kurust) - this chemically reacts with any rust remaining (even invisible to the naked eye) and forms a solid material that can then be primered onto - dubbed 'black rust'

 

 

When thats finished doing it's stuff (approx 3 hours) the surface is ready for a sand down with wet and dry in the region of 320 grade then primer.

As the panels are galvanised steel etch primer is used, it is also far more corrosion preventing than bog standard primer. I used about three coats at 20min intervals.

 

After leaving plenty of time for it to harden I then gave it a sand down with very wet 1000 grade wet and dry. I dried off the surface and wiped down with panel wipe, let this dry and then went on with the first coat of top coat. - Incidently the halfords graphite grey seems to be an excellent match! - I put 3 coats of this on then finished with a couple of coats of laquer. After a couple of days, for any visible bits with engine in, I will get some really fine wet and dry and sand over the surface then give it a good polish to do my best to remove the 'orange peel effect'.

 

Any input on my method above would be really good, as I've already said this is all a learning process for me so feel free to teach me!

 

The final result -

 

Before

 

 

After

 

Edited September 1, 2009 by sport1901966

[sport1901966 8]

Progress has slowed a bit now - lots of rust treating taking time then I won't have access to the car for a while but I do have a mini-update.

 

I began this project with the intention that I wanted the fitting to be as clean and factory looking as possible, in-keeping with this when I removed the 8v loom and ECU I decided to mod the ecu mount bracket from behind the drivers side dash so I could mount the Mi16 ECU in the same place.

 

This was not difficult - I just had to grind off the 2 studs where the front of the 8v ecu was using my trusty dremel (shown by the position of the top 2 circles which are the bottoms of the studs) -

 

 

I then drew lines down the side of the 8v ecu when it was in place on the mount to use as references so the Mi ecu would be at the right angle. Using these lines as I guide I found I could use one of the original holes on the Mi ecu mounting flange on one side but would have to cut out a section to allow access to the bracket mounting hole -

 

 

This did mean I would have to cut a slot into the edge of the flange on the other side -

 

 

All fixed on -

 

[jackherer 543]

You could have just put it on two of the mounting studs diagonally without modifying anything

[sport1901966 8]

You could have just put it on two of the mounting studs diagonally without modifying anything

 

I'm sure you're right but then I wouldn't have been able to get out the dremel/power tools!

[richsmells 2]

Good thread! I really need to sort the bay rust out on mine. Keep it up!

[paul205mi16 4]

Quote:

"When I got the servo out it seems there has been a master cylinder leak at some point (not the current one as I replaced it recently) and the servo was amazingly full of fluid - probably more than enough to fill the reservoir again. I have most of it out but there is some still left I can't get out. What would you chaps do in this situation - take apart? Replace? Ignore?"

 

I have the same problem. I drained the servo and fitted a new master cylinder, Not sure if there is any more fluid in there now as I couldnt get all of it. Great thread by the way fella.

[sport1901966 8]

Quote:

"When I got the servo out it seems there has been a master cylinder leak at some point (not the current one as I replaced it recently) and the servo was amazingly full of fluid - probably more than enough to fill the reservoir again. I have most of it out but there is some still left I can't get out. What would you chaps do in this situation - take apart? Replace? Ignore?"

 

I have the same problem. I drained the servo and fitted a new master cylinder, Not sure if there is any more fluid in there now as I couldnt get all of it. Great thread by the way fella.

 

That's good news I assume all is working fine? I guess I'll stick with what I've got, saves me the £150 that pug were asking for a new one!

 

Thanks very much for the response paul

Edited September 3, 2009 by sport1901966

[paul205mi16 4]

Yeah it seems to be working fine at the moment, I've had it like this for a few months now and not seen not braking problems, I will drain properly when I remove the engine and fit my newer spare later in the year, probably give it a sand down and repaint too.

Keep up the good work matey.

[sport1901966 8]

I'm off on hols next week but when I get back I'm hoping the engine will be ready to collect so I'll be re-assembling the bottom end then the full engine (head is coming assembled. Bit nervous about this part, I think the key will be making sure I have all the tools/lubricants/sealants etc before I start.

 

On that note can anyone recommend any Assembley Lubricant and silicone gasket for the sump etc

 

Also is this the kind of moly grease I want for the headbolts -

 

 

The more tips and advice people have for me the better - trust me I will appreciate it!

[sport1901966 8]

Should have some better updates coming soon but busy with uni work atm!

 

Just for anyone else who may find it useful - I managed to clear almost all the brake fluid out of the servo using the trigger spray from a bottle of fabreeze or similar and dipping the pick-up tube into the oil in the servo - worked a treat!