Adjustable Bottom Arms

[205Rallee 59]

Sorry this has probably been answered a million times.

 

Can the 309 GTI wishbones be used on a 205 with the gti subframe running a TU engine and box. My concern is will the driveshafts fall out of the diff when banging over kerbs , getting onto two wheels etc on race tracks?

 

I'm toying with the idea of the 309 wishbones, KAD adustable wishbones or BBM spherical top mounts as I currently have the standard camber angles. If I can use the 309 arms are the Motaquip ones still available, if not which are the ones to get (not from the stealers) which don't require the bushes to be changed.

 

Thanks for any advice!

[MerlinGTI 3]

IIRC motorquip no longer sell the 309 bones, if you ring around you might find some old stock but your be lucky. Its the motorquip ones that have the decent kleber bush's that do not need to be changed. Peugeot are charging absolute crazy money for 205 bones (like over £200 each!) so 309 ones will be the same.

 

309 bones 'extend' out approx 15mm extra over GTI items (again IIRC), some people say 309 shafts are needed on 205 GTI's some say they are not, I havent used 309 bones so I cant comment. I also have no idea for you as I dont know how the TU setup differs from the XU.

 

Something I can comment on though is eccentric top mounts. I have these and coilovers on my GTI and they are brilliant, allowing over 1.5 degrees of negitive camber on the front, which is too much for my liking but hey nice to have the adjustment. If you go for adjustment on your top mounts rather than your bones you can easilly source cheap bones and have no issues (albeit possible) with driveshafts. Plus smoother steering (depending on what top mounts you decide on of course)

 

Sorted

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

This is a topic swordfish120 will be able to give you some info on. I know he runs 309 bones on his 1.4 XT but cant remember what driveshaft he runs!

[philfingers 5]

The 309 arms will of course allow a wide track. I have them on mine but feel (for road and road rally use) that there’s too much camber. They’re probably ok if it was a road/track car but in the muddy conditions of road rallying the tyre needs to be more upright (less neg) for putting the power down and ultimately stopping! I have some new camber adjustable top mounts coming soon, the BBM ones, which allow separate camber/castor adjustment. I’m going to try with less neg on the front, maybe std neg even, but with the 309 arms

[Baz 421]

Just use any 309 TU driveshafts.

[swordfish210 20]

I've been using 309 GTI wishbones and 205 driveshafts on my XT as Ed said for about 8000 miles (some of it on track) and i have encountered no problems. Infact i recently had the driveshafts apart for some new boots and i saw no adverse wear or any damage at all.

[SurGie 54]

Something I can comment on though is eccentric top mounts. I have these and coilovers on my GTI and they are brilliant, allowing over 1.5 degrees of negitive camber on the front, which is too much for my liking but hey nice to have the adjustment. If you go for adjustment on your top mounts rather than your bones you can easilly source cheap bones and have no issues (albeit possible) with driveshafts. Plus smoother steering (depending on what top mounts you decide on of course)

 

Sorted

 

 

I was thinking of getting some eccentric top mounts, until i was told that they will be too hard to use on roads and are

made really only for track use.

 

How do yours feel on the road, and what springs/coil-overs are you using ?

[engine killer 6]

I was thinking of getting some eccentric top mounts, until i was told that they will be too hard to use on roads and are

made really only for track use.

 

How do yours feel on the road, and what springs/coil-overs are you using ?

 

I have been using the camber adjustable top mount for some years and they are still fine. the one I am using is similar to the BBM one.

[MerlinGTI 3]

I was thinking of getting some eccentric top mounts, until i was told that they will be too hard to use on roads and are

made really only for track use.

 

How do yours feel on the road, and what springs/coil-overs are you using ?

 

Combined with a suitable springrate for fast road use they are fine.

 

I'm running 180 lb 9" springs on GAZ GHA coilovers and GAZ eccentric top mounts. Awesome setup for road use, the ride is perfect.

Edited August 11, 2009 by MerlinGTI

[James_R 3]

Top mount's won't be non road it just means you're totally reliant on the damper doing it's job properly as that's the only moving bit.

 

Does increase the vibration a little, but the benifits outweight that imo.

 

The increased castor is very useful.

[Rippthrough 98]

Sheet of 50-shore rubber, pair of scissors, bingo, vibration absorbing spherical mounts...

[205Rallee 59]

Thanks for the comments.

 

I'm using Bilstein GroupA struts with PTS spherical fixed top mounts and there is absolutely no problem with ride or vibrations on the road and I can batter at kerbs on the track with no problems.

 

As 309 arms are difficult to come by, I'm going to go with the BBM top mounts as you can adjust camber and castor without taking the mounts off every time. Also unlike the Compbrake ones they use big spherical bearings just like the PTS ones.

 

I am using PTS 13 x7" wheels with Bridgestone RE720's (have to use List 1A tyres for the class I compete in). Any thoughts/advice on castor/camber angles?

[swordfish210 20]

Slight thread hijack. I've set my mounts like this:

 

 

Any advice as to a preferd setting or is this OK?

[philfingers 5]

i set mine on the old 309 at (looking from the front) around 1 o'clock for the drivers and 11 o'clock for the navigators/passenger side, which is pretty much as per yours. On the four wheel laser alignment it was pretty close at 1deg40mins each side. which for track use is fine, for road rallying was probably a bit too much neg.

[ravydavy 0]

i'm sorry but i can't look at the settings on the strut tops for looking at all the greasy finger marks all over the grill.

you've obviously had a mcdonalds...

Edited August 17, 2009 by ravydavy

[swordfish210 20]

i'm sorry but i can't look at the settings on the strut tops for looking at all the greasy finger marks all over the grill.

you've obviously had a mcdonalds...

 

 

Thanks for the input, very useful.

[Dazza 4]

I've been using 309 GTI wishbones and 205 driveshafts on my XT as Ed said for about 8000 miles (some of it on track) and i have encountered no problems. Infact i recently had the driveshafts apart for some new boots and i saw no adverse wear or any damage at all.

 

 

A mate of mine uses the 309 Arms and has retained the origional driveshafts on his 205 , he has the Gaz Golds and ive driven it on track and was impressed with the turn in and grip , certainly felt more sure footed than with the 205 wishbones .

 

Not sure how durable this will be ? looking at your 8000 miles though ....must be ok ..

 

What will be the best camber - castor settings for a track car ..iam giving this some thought ..

 

Iam intending to Use the 309 wishbones with the BB tip mounts ..., i have got Koni macphersonsfitted not the coil-overs ...

 

Whats your thoughts guys ..

[welshpug 1,655]

you need to spend more on suspension Dazza to make the most of that power you've got a diff in there haven't you?

[Dazza 4]

you need to spend more on suspension Dazza to make the most of that power you've got a diff in there haven't you?

 

 

Oh yep its got one ....i Will start a thread .

[philfingers 5]

I got a set of those BBM top mounts and I have to say they're quality kit. I'll be fitting them as soon as I have sorted some gravel spec bilsteins. I'm actually considering trying to rebuild the ones I have myself, as they're more or less scrap value, sorry I wandered off track a little. . . . .. . .

[Dazza 4]

I got a set of those BBM top mounts and I have to say they're quality kit. I'll be fitting them as soon as I have sorted some gravel spec bilsteins. I'm actually considering trying to rebuild the ones I have myself, as they're more or less scrap value, sorry I wandered off track a little. . . . .. . .

 

What did they cost you , ive been on BB site and couldnt find a price ..

[philfingers 5]

They are a pre production version, albeit as far as i know the only difference is that the steel is in it's raw state and not finished (painted/coated etc) as the production item will be. I think the price will be around £150 but best you drop Stew an email using the website and find out. If they aren't available yet they will be soon I'm sure

The nice thing is the bearings are the large OD ones used by PTS themselves, these are stronger and longer lasting than the cheaper ones found in other top mounts.