Rear Knocking

[happygoron 2]

There is a distinct knocking sound coming from the rear of my 205. Usually occours after a bump in the road surface and is almost like the exhaust is banging around after the bump (but isn't, exhaust and spare wheel are secure). Beam was refurbed 2-3 years ago I believe and there arn't any other beam symptoms such as poor camber or sagging. The only thing a good look underneath showed was one shock appears to be leaking. Would this cause a knocking sound?

 

Obviously I need to replace the rear shocks now anyway. Standard items are £48 each from pug, GSF lists two types, SHOCK ABS BQ RE" @ £28.70 and "SHOCK ABS RE" @ £18.70. What startlingly obvious thing does the BQ mean? Is the pug stuff worth the price?

[welshpug 1,655]

Don't think a damper would cause a knocking sound, but the trailing arm hitting the bump stop due to lack of damping may well do, probably the cause of your spin i seem to remember you having?

 

BQ = Better Quality

 

I'd go for the pug ones myself

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Worn rear shock bush?

 

I had this once but a friends car also had the back box moving when going off the power & it was hitting the torsion bar.

 

Graham.

[Rich_p 23]

Were all the mounting bushes replaced when you refitted the beam after the refurb?

Edited August 8, 2009 by Rich_p

[happygoron 2]

Definately not hitting the stops, shock isn't that far gone. And spin? What spin? Bushes don't look too bad, will a new shock come with new bushes or will I have to get them seperately?

 

Don't know about the mounting bushes, was done by the previous owner. However on reputation I feel I can safely assume the previous owner did a good beam refurb and would have replaced anything that looked suspicous.

[happygoron 2]

Another slight update: Had a good play around under the back, grabbing and shaking everything and nothing budges, all seems pretty well bolted down. Annoying. I can also induce the knocking by shaking the wheel when moving at a reasonable speed (>=20-30mph). Sounds like something is shaking about but I can't find anything loose!!!!

[happygoron 2]

Anothe update, this one slightly embaressing. The noise is coming from the front left!! I'm deaf in one ear so don't have any directional hearing, took a mate out yesterday and after a short drive and some careful precising driving over a few drains we concluded that it's the front passenger side. Still need to change the rear dampers though, but that won't solve my problem.

 

Had a quick tug around on that wheel. Had a new TRE recently so it isn't that, what are the other common knocking culprits? Droplinks? Any particular bushes? Top mounts?

[Anthony 1,002]

Droplinks, top mounts, or loose subframe are the usual candidates for knocking on the front end in my experience.

 

Check the six subframe bolts (and the two on the steering rack) are tight, and then whip the droplink off for a look - if one or both of the balljoints feel a bit loose and move with little resistance, I'd replace it as a matter of course (I'd do the other side at the same time too) and go from there.

[welshpug 1,655]

no untoward behaviour on the steering that would indicate a balljoint or wishbone bush?

 

if not, could be a droplink or ARB bush, though the ARB bushes do tend to last very well being poly as standard, could be a top mount bearing or rubber donut if they are very old.

[happygoron 2]

Steering hasn't been quite right for a while, thought it would be the TRE but that didn't solve it. Odd clunk when turning and sometimes easier to turn right than left.

 

Will have a very good look under the car tommrow and see. Sounds like these symptoms are pointing towards wishbone bushes? It's all like a giant jigsaw with the pieces slowly coming together! I love this 205, forcing me to learn basic car mechanics pretty fast!

[Anthony 1,002]

Will have a very good look under the car tommrow and see. Sounds like these symptoms are pointing towards wishbone bushes? It's all like a giant jigsaw with the pieces slowly coming together! I love this 205, forcing me to learn basic car mechanics pretty fast!

Wishbone bushes generally make the car steer left and right coming on and off the throttle when they're knackered. Wishbone balljoints can clunk, although not often in my experience, and can make the steering vague and the car susceptible to picking up ruts and not feel "right".

[happygoron 2]

Right, Will have a good look after work, thanks very much for your help guys. Will keep this updated!

[happygoron 2]

Update on my fault finding for this rear front knock:

 

No obvious throttle steering evident. A good tug around reveals the only thing that moves are the arb drop links, and then only side to side a litte, don't think it's wear/play. Everything else feels solid. However with the wheel on and in the air, with the other side just touching the ground if I steer the wheel by hand an obvious clunking/clucking is audible (to the best of my ability!) and feelable on the main suspension strut. Does this indicate the top mount on it's way?

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

It sounds like it could be the top mount bearing has died but checking the ARB droplinks is easy with the car on the wheels.

 

Grab the ARB & see if you can pull it down, it should be solid, any movement you can find means they are dead.

 

Best practice to replace in pairs also, if ones dead the other won't be far behind imo.

 

Graham.

[happygoron 2]

It sounds like it could be the top mount bearing has died but checking the ARB droplinks is easy with the car on the wheels.

 

Grab the ARB & see if you can pull it down, it should be solid, any movement you can find means they are dead.

 

Best practice to replace in pairs also, if ones dead the other won't be far behind imo.

 

Graham.

 

Cheers, will give that a go later. I see pug charge silly prices for new droplinks and quite a few people on this forum seem to say the GSF ones don't last 5 minutes. Where is best to get some?

[jimistdt 1]

Cheers, will give that a go later. I see pug charge silly prices for new droplinks and quite a few people on this forum seem to say the GSF ones don't last 5 minutes. Where is best to get some?

 

Specify Lemforder from GSF, I've had them they're fine.

[welshpug 1,655]

my gsf ones have done 15k miles and are still fine

[happygoron 2]

GSF will go then. I'll have a look after work and give them a ring if I need some.

 

Are official pug top mounts worth the price? I assume 503125 (MOUNTING ASSY) is the part I need (£50 a side!) or is it just 503022 (SUSP BUFFER)?

[Anthony 1,002]

Just buy the bearings on their own from GSF (they're not listed as 205, but rather as Citroen Berlingo and ZX from memory) and get a set of Group N rubbers off Stew Baker (BakerBM) - much nicer than the standard ones in my opinion with minimal impact on ride comfort

[welshpug 1,655]

I'd just buy the bearing on its own from GSF and buy BBM rubbers if they are worse for wear, bearings listed for Berlingo by GSF

 

(though when cross referenced are listed for......

 

every bloody pug!!

 

just not shown in the catalogue individually for the 205)

Edited August 13, 2009 by welshpug

[happygoron 2]

I assume you mean:

 

N45710 STRUT TOP BEARING BERLINGO STRUT TOP BEARING 9.50

 

Also comes up when you search for the part number as:

 

N45710 STRUT TOP BEARING ZX + PAS STRUT TOP BEARING 9.50

[welshpug 1,655]

That's the bugger

[eddie bullit 37]

I'd put my money on your top mount bearing being shagged! prob not moving through its range of movement until you drop it down a pot hole or agressive steering or hard acceleration on camber roads/pot holes. then clunk it shifts! would explain why your steerings gone a bit off as well. I've just changed all the front sus on mine. It's of to a mates garage to check and torque everthing before I can drive her as intended. The top mount bearings on mine were fooked! should be great now can't wait

 

Edd.

[happygoron 2]

Edd: Sounds like mine.

 

Right, 'fast road' (soft as they do!) mounts ordered from BBM and GSF have the bearings in stock. Ordered a 21mm spanner (stupid size!), borrowed some spring compressors and read bonzais helpful thread on removing struts. Bring on the challenge!

 

Cheers for all the help guys! Give you all a break for a bit before I start the work and the questions come flooding in again!

[Anthony 1,002]

Right, 'fast road' (soft as they do!) mounts ordered from BBM and GSF have the bearings in stock. Ordered a 21mm spanner (stupid size!), borrowed some spring compressors and read bonzais helpful thread on removing struts. Bring on the challenge!

Did you order an 21mm offset / drop ring spanner? The nut is partly recessed, so it's much, much easier with an offset spanner.

 

You'll also need a 7mm allen bit for holding the shaft if you don't already have one, assuming it's standard OE dampers (which I'm 99% sure it was)