Mi16 Loom Help

[smokey 0]

Hiya guys

 

I've just got round to sorting out my mi16 loom and have found out that its been cut

 

The loom was given to be in a big pile and i stuck it to the back of the shed for when i got round to needing it

 

Anyway im not bad with a soldering iron and have plenty of shrink tubing so i can put it back together.

 

Trouble is there are quite a few wires of the same colour and i can't seem to identify them. I've pealed back some of the black tape hoping that i will find some numbers on the wires so that i can then identify which ones need to be put back together. I have found a few but the rest are not.

 

Any suggestions guys.

 

I've got a picture here so you can see what i'm up against!!

 

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I'd start with the numbered ones, and see how much is left to match.

 

Some remaining may be obvious by colour, but there'll be a lot of green/green and yellow as they are mainly earths so I wouldn't have thought would be bad if they were mixed round.

 

Another way would be pin checking on the ECU plug (someone could post a diagram) going to obvious connections, e.g. injector plugs, ring terminals (ground) and ECU water temp sensor.

 

It might be easier than you think once you start working through it, but on the other hand this could be a complete nightmare and you'd be better off getting a non-cut loom.

[welshpug 1,657]

looks like it may have already been converted for a 205?

 

should be straightforward enough to work out what goes where, as not many of the wires are specific to the Mi16 engine on it.

[smokey 0]

looks like it may have already been converted for a 205?

 

should be straightforward enough to work out what goes where, as not many of the wires are specific to the Mi16 engine on it.

 

Thanks for the comment so far guys, i'll reconnect the numbered one and i'll repost how i get on.

 

I dont think the loom has been converted for a 205. Thats what i plan to do in the end. Just want to get the loom sorted 1st.

 

Just a question... I thought all the wires on the 405 engine loom were used for the conversion and i only needed to connect a few of these to the dash loom so the sensor lights worked.

 

Are some of the wires in this loom for the 405 lights etc? Reason i'm asking is i've found another cut end which most probably went to the fuse box.

 

I've still got the 205 engine loom, i take it i need to strip out the wires for lights etc but anything that connected to the engine should be thrown?

 

Thanks

Edited August 8, 2009 by smokey

[smokey 0]

Hiya guys

 

I'm going through the loom and have taken some more pictures so that i can try and work out what i need for the conversion and what i dont need.

 

My understanding is there are still some 405 lights and non engine wiring and plugs attached to the loom.

 

If anyone could help me identify these parts that would be great. Or tell me which plugs i need so that i know the rest can be removed from the loom that would be great.

 

This one is of the whole loom

 

 

The rest of the pictures are close ups to all the sections.

 

 

ECU plug even i know this one...lol

 

 

 

 

Are these the brown and black multiplugs that i need to connect to? It said in an Mi16 guide on here that i need to create a link loom to the black and brown plugs

 

 

Ah another section that has been cut. Would this have been connected to the fuse box?

 

Edited August 8, 2009 by smokey

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

This is almost asking the impossible Smokus me old china.

 

You're best approach is isolating each loom (or harness's) purpose.

 

Start with the one with the big ECU plug on using these 3 pics:

the whole loom...

and this one...

and this one...

 

The ECU harness should have on the end of it at least:

* the 4 green injector JPT/AMP plugs (shown in the 2nd pic)

* the coil plug (3-4 pin IIRC brown plug in pic 3)

* the AFM plug (4 or 5-pin IIRC - could be the black plug in pic 3, but it could be ign amp one as they are similar)

* the ECU coolant temp plug (which may be the blue one, they often are but you could check that back to the pins on the ECU plug and the wire colours/numbers to those pins)

* the CPS plug (crank position sensor on top of the gearbox - it's usually black but you have lots of those)

* the ICV plug (idle control valve - anyone's guess)

* ignition amplifier plug (another of the black ones but most likely 3-5 pin)

* the TPS (throttle position switch - another black one 2 or 3 pin)

 

The other connections, eg the spades and other JPTs are most likely for coolant temp guage and light (spades), oil pressure guage and light (JPT or perhaps spade) and are not part of the ECU harness really as they talk to the dash via the brown multi plugs under the steering column.

 

One of the best things you could do is go to your engine, trial fit and label certain connectors which only connect to one thing e.g. the AFM, the ign amp and the ICV. You may be able to do that with some of the other JPTs as they have a lug and groove on them so they can only go on one thing such as ECU coolant temp sender.

 

Then you will have narrowed down what else you need to match up, as it'll mostly be switched lives and earths (lots of the latter).

 

Your rev counter wire will be there too somewhere, but again this goes to the brown multi-plugs and not to the ECU.

 

You have a challenge there my friend and I think you can get through it methodically using a process of elimination.

Edited August 8, 2009 by DrSarty

[welshpug 1,657]

is it a 3 row loom? I think I have the Pinout list for that and the 2 row, you can go through each wire with a multimeter and confirm its function if you set it to beep on continuity

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

is it a 3 row loom? I think I have the Pinout list for that and the 2 row, you can go through each wire with a multimeter and confirm its function if you set it to beep on continuity

 

That would not only be useful for both of us Mei but greatly appreciated.

 

I need to start making new looms for my 2 x 3-row Mi ECU managed engine projects. It seems risky on 2 new engines to use old looms, but I will use/borrow one as a master to copy, although I'll get the cables alot shorter and neater to fit the 205 engine bay and dash better.

 

I'll make the sensor 'feed back' loom/harness separately and will make a relay box (3 relays inside) for each as well (Injectors + ECU / Fuel pump + O2 if nec / dash switched fan cut-in) just like the one in my 2.2 Mi.

 

I actually can't wait, as I plan to bring the items back out to Afghanistan with a soldering iron, new & old connections and some heat shrink and pass the evenings doing something constructive.

Edited August 8, 2009 by DrSarty

[Veero 1]

I've got loads of 2 and 3 row info, diagrams etc. I have also drawn a new 3 row loom diagram in excel if only someone could confirm whether it's accurate or not

 

Either way send me a PM Rich with your email address and Ill happily send you a zip file with all the info. Smokey I can send you the info too if you want.

[smokey 0]

Thanks for the info you sent me Veero

 

How do i find out what row my loom and ECU is?

 

The ECU has 0 261 200 355 on it and its a Motronic.

 

Got a multimeter now so ready to start identifying the remaining wires

[luggy 13]

You can tell by the ecu or ecu connector.

355 is 3 row with knock sensor

[smokey 0]

You can tell by the ecu or ecu connector.

355 is 3 row with knock sensor

 

 

Cool so its a Row 3, what does that mean and a knock sensor, is that a good thing?

[Veero 1]

It means your loom has a sensor which detects the ignition pitch of the fuel/air mixture and adjusts the ignition timing to suit so you can run either normal or super unleaded without needing to change the injection coding resistor as on the 2 row system.

 

Not necessarily good or bad, just a different model with a slightly different configuration.

 

The knock sensor bolts onto the protruding stud which the other end bolts through the block into the centre main bearing cap, it's all tucked in between the crankcase oil breather, oil filler and oil filter housings.

[smokey 0]

Hey guys

 

An update to this thread....

 

I gone through Veero's diagrams and with a multimeter have managed to identify most of the wires that had been cut and also identify most of the plugs :-)

 

The Engine is not with me at the moment as its at a mates lock up, so wasn't able to try out all the plugs on the engine like Dr Sarty suggested. But with the diagrams seemed to all make sense as some wires are interconnected between the plugs and when tested they all matched up help identifying them.

 

However there were a few pins on the ECU plug which weren't the same as Veero's Excel diagram.

 

These were and i've identified them with the multimeter to be:

 

pin 14 = Ground on the Knock and Crank sensor plugs

 

pin 18 = Goes to the bunch of wires where the brown plugs go. The 405 wiring diagram says it should go to a fuse where the other wire from the fuse goes to the Fuel Pump Relay and Fuel Injector Relay. These 2 plugs are connected by a 1B wire and on the Fuel Pump Relay this 1B wire goes there is a thick yellow wire (1) going into the same point.

 

pin 20 = Same as pin 1 on ECU. I also multimetered both ECU pins 1 and 20 and they were connected too.

 

pin 23 = Goes to the big Purple plug on my loom M743 on the 405 diagram. No purple plug mentioned on the Excel diagram.

 

pin 24 = ground, knock and crank sensor plugs

 

pin 40 = goes to the bunch of wires where the brown plugs go

 

pin 41 = white wire on my photo (still not connected) but would end up going to the bunch of wires where the brown plugs go

 

pin 43 = white wire on my photo (still not connected) but would end up going to the bunch of wires where the brown plugs go

 

pin 49 = Earth

 

 

 

I've also discovered from this that the Air Flow Meter plug is not here and the brown plugs are not here. Obviously taken for another car!!!

 

I'm just wondering if i can use the AFM plug from my original 8v loom and maybe use the brown plugs (if there are any) off my 8v loom. Looking at the photos i've just added i have the feeling there is not enough length for these wires to go back to the dash loom, so i'm guessing that i will need to extend these back to the dash?!

 

 

 

There are a few plugs which i can't identify from Veero's Excel diagram.

 

The big purple plug which is the same as the Fuel Pump Relay and Fuel Inector Relay. Any idea what it is?

The 4 wires from the plug to: pin 23 and 37 on the ECU, bunch of wires where the brown plugs go and to another unidentified 2 pin plug.

 

A white 2 pin plug with metal bits on the side, one wire goes to pin 19 on the ECU (earth) and the other wire goes to the purple plug

 

Brown 2 pin plug with wires 224 and 225. Wires go to the bunch of wires where the brown plugs go.

 

Also i noticed there is a spade connector coming off the Coil code 2c goes to pin 4 on the coil, this is not on Veero's Excel diagram.

 

Here are some pictures of the loom as it is now. I've annotated them too.

 

 

 

Hope you can help guys, think we're getting there!!

 

Also this may help others with there looms. Once its all identified and made up i'll add more annotated diagrams and a list of wires and ECU pins to make a guide.

 

Thanks

Edited August 23, 2009 by smokey

[Veero 1]

Your inbox is full mate.

[smokey 0]

Your inbox is full mate.

 

 

Sorted :-)

[smokey 0]

A bump for this thread.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Now i've linked up 99% of the cut wires i'm hoping someone might be able to help with the rest?!

 

Veero has suggested that some of teh plugs and wires on this loom are for the 205 already. I dont think this is the case though.

 

My main problem now is that i'm missing the AFM plug and the 2 multiplugs. Can i get them from somewhere?

 

Was thinking of using parts from my old 205 1.6 loom, would that work?

 

Thanks

[Veero 1]

Vehicle Wiring Products do some of the plugs. They are called Junior Timer Plugs and are under Connectors and then Alternator plugs. Get them new, much better than salvaging possibly corroded and dodgy old ones. Edited September 2, 2009 by Veero

[smokey 0]

Vehicle Wiring Products do some of the plugs. They are called Junior Timer Plugs and are under Connectors and then Alternator plugs. Get them new, much better than salvaging possibly corroded and dodgy old ones.

 

 

Wicked thanks for that tip mate

 

Any idea which ones i need?

 

Also my main concern is the fact that i dont have the AFM plug or the Brown plugs.

 

I dont have my 8v engine loom with me so cant check but could i use the brown plugs off that, if there are any?

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

The only looms I've seen wth the pruple plug in are from MM8P looms from automatic cars with the starter inhibit switch.

 

But as you mention pin 23 of the ecu plug goes to it, my autodata says thats the air condition compressor clutch relay

 

Also i noticed there is a spade connector coming off the Coil code 2c goes to pin 4 on the coil, this is not on Veero's Excel diagram.

Don't worry about that wire, its there on every car I've seen with a coil mounted inlet on several management system.

pin 40 = goes to the bunch of wires where the brown plugs go

 

pin 41 = white wire on my photo (still not connected) but would end up going to the bunch of wires where the brown plugs go

 

pin 43 = white wire on my photo (still not connected) but would end up going to the bunch of wires where the brown plugs go

Looking on Autodata for the three row ecu plug, pin 40 & 41 are air conditioning, pin 43 isn't connected.

 

The brown two pin plug that's unknown is probably from the bitron sensor for the a/c if its a two pin plug like the CTS (blue) plug.

 

Which brown plugs are you looking for? Once you have the AFM plug wired up (your 205 loom plug will be fine afaik) you can use the few wires you need to join up from the 205 loom & trim them to match this loom although with your car being a 87 CTI you won't have both under dash multiplugs iirc, the loom for the sensors etc will come into the engine bay from the passenger side of the bulkhead.

 

I agree that I don't think any of the plugs you have spare are from a 205 loom.

 

Graham.

[smokey 0]

Thankyou very much for your input Graham much appreciated!!

 

So it sounds like the purple plug isn't needed and the wires going to pin 40, 41 and 43 as they are all Air Conditioning. Great sorts that out!!

 

Just wondering with the pin 43 it says it's not connected but it's definitely going to a white wire, which would end up going to the bunch of wires where the brown plugs and AFM plug would go.

 

Should I just isolate these away from the rest?

 

I'll check the bitron sensor plug to see if that's the unknown brown plug, from memory I think it's the same as the CTS plug so it probably is. Also I think this plug is connected to the purple plug also suggesting it's to do with the Air Con.

 

Great news that I can use the AFM plug from my old 205 loom, shall work on that bit tonight!!

 

I upgraded the dash loom on my car due to putting in a new 205 phase 2 dash. So I now have a phase 2 dash loom with the 2 brown plugs, hence why I need the brown plugs on the 405 loom to hook up with the dash loom.

 

Will I need to source 405 brown plugs or could I use plugs from my old 205 engine loom?

 

Thanks again

Edited September 3, 2009 by smokey

[darojac 0]

If you're still in trouble with your loom, I did a drawing of the standard 3 row MI16 loom before it was modified - may be of help

 

Mi16 loom

 

Dave

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I upgraded the dash loom on my car due to putting in a new 205 phase 2 dash. So I now have a phase 2 dash loom with the 2 brown plugs, hence why I need the brown plugs on the 405 loom to hook up with the dash loom.

 

Will I need to source 405 brown plugs or could I use plugs from my old 205 engine loom?

The brown plugs will need to come from your 205 loom.

 

The ones in a 405 loom are usually bigger & with many more connections in them for the whole front end loom iirc.

 

Graham.

[smokey 0]

Thanks Graham

 

Ah i see makes more sense. I thought i needed to use 405 plugs with the 205 brown plugs.

 

But after seeing what you said and reading the guides again. I saw that the perosn was making a link loom 405 plugs on one end and 205 plugs on the other.

 

Seeing i'm missing them i can miss out the link loom alltogether and just wire 205 plugs to the 405 loom then plug the 205 plugs to the brown plugs under the dash.

 

However even though i've upgraded the dash loom to phase 2 or 1.5 can't remember. The 205 engine loom is still phase 1. So would there even be any plugs on that loom to plug into the brown plugs on my new dash loom?

 

I think there might not be?!

 

If so any suggestions? I guess i could always wire spade connectors onto the wires from the 405 loom and then plug these onto the pins of the brown plugs?

 

Lastly (for now) looking at my dash loom, i can see only 1 brown plug where the brown plugs would be located. The other plug which is next to the brown plug is white?!

 

Thanks for the help so far guys