[trackday_prep] Big Project For Us

[dicky20014 4]

Have had a couple of 205's before and tinkered with them a little bit doing odds and ends (brakes, coolant pipes, AFM etc) just got too know my way around the 205 a little bit really. Bought a white 1.9 gti 3 years ago for spares and repairs (non - runner, only paid £100 for it) to keep my other one going, and was always going to use it for just that, spares, then probably put the remaining shell up on the forum to get rid of it.

 

Now I'm considering selling my mint miami blue one, I dont really want to NOT have a 205 as there just so much fun and really are one of the greatest cars out there. So..... we (me + mate) have decided to get this non runner going again and turn it into a budget road legal track car.

 

Bearing in mind we have never done anything like this before, its a bit of a (big) challege for us but would quite likely be a walk in the park for most of you! So I thought I'd create a project thread for it as I'm sure I'm not the only one like this, and it might encourage (and hopefully help!) others on here to push their comfort zones a little bit and see what they can do! Also, it means we can get some help for ourselves off you kind forum members when we get stuck (which I'm sure we will )

[dicky20014 4]

The car had no wheels on it, no bonnet brakes weren't working, a fair bit of the interior etc was missing, the engine was blown up (previous owner) and not too sure what else. Shell didnt look to bad, but was hard to tell in the garage it was in as it had no lights, hardly any room etc and was covered in dust and grime.

 

First thing we did was too source some wheels for it, looked around, on here and ebay etc for a good few months and eventually found ourselves a bargain:

 

Got some standard 1.9 alloys in not too bad nick (what we wanted ) with michelin tyres on them all with good tread, for a measly £104 on ebay, happy days! First thing was to get these fitted and try and get the car in a state that it could be pushed.

[dicky20014 4]

current state of car + wheels going on!

[dicky20014 4]

Once we free'd it up and managed to get it so it would rock back and forth we needed to get it out of the garage as the garage it was in at the moment was the persons who I bought the car off 3 years ago, he was kind enough to let us keep the car in there as he didnt use the garage anyway!

 

We have started renting a lockup nearby to build the car up in so thats where we needed to get it to!

 

 

Pushed the car out of the garage and up the road to outside my house, then it was all hands on deck to get it cleaned up and stripped out before the trailer arrived to take it to its new home (we figured it would be much easier to do this here as we had no running water and not alot of room etc at this garage we were taking it to).

[dicky20014 4]

Not alot left in her now!

[dicky20014 4]

She needed a proper good clean and polish inside and out, really didnt expect her to come up this good, we were chuffed with the results:

Edited July 22, 2009 by dicky20014

[dicky20014 4]

On the trailer and ready to be taken to her new home

[dicky20014 4]

Arrived at her new home, not the most glamorous, but it'll do!

[IntenseDan 0]

Awwww, pretty much carbon copy of mine, but mine has seats/harnesses in and spare is mounted on the boot floor.

Great fun, just expect to get alot of 'why's' from people when your down Tesco for a pint of milk!!

 

Dan

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Brilliant stuff!

 

One thing I've noticed is a type of shoe that 205 GTI owners wear. Totally irrelevant but true. Perhaps it shows a kindred, chilled out spirit.

 

Can't offer any substantial advice at present as it seems you're both focussed and doing just fine, although the new garage is a little cramped.

 

I'd personally focus on reliability of the engine and no steering or braking nasties. The 1.9 GTI engine will be fine as is for fun, but you could consider a 1.6 or Mi16 box perhaps (?).

 

If it's purely for track, maybe you could follow Cameron (excellent fella - very skilled) and do away with the water pump too (?). I wouldn't even waste time and money on any aftermarket cone type filters IMO. Baffled sump with extended oil pick up and spacer plate to up oil capacity may be worth considering too.

 

Please just keep us updated and ask as you go.

Edited July 23, 2009 by DrSarty

[dicky20014 4]

Awwww, pretty much carbon copy of mine, but mine has seats/harnesses in and spare is mounted on the boot floor.

Great fun, just expect to get alot of 'why's' from people when your down Tesco for a pint of milk!!

 

Dan

 

Good stuff! No this isn't going to be an everyday car, its for weekend hooning around in and track days

 

 

Brilliant stuff!

 

One thing I've noticed is a type of shoe that 205 GTI owners wear. Totally irrelevant but true. Perhaps it shows a kindred, chilled out spirit.

 

Can't offer any substantial advice at present as it seems you're both focussed and doing just fine, although the new garage is a little cramped.

 

I'd personally focus on reliability of the engine and no steering or braking nasties. The 1.9 GTI engine will be fine as is for fun, but you could consider a 1.6 or Mi16 box perhaps (?).

 

If it's purely for track, maybe you could follow Cameron (excellent fella - very skilled) and do away with the water pump too (?). I wouldn't even waste time and money on any aftermarket cone type filters IMO. Baffled sump with extended oil pick up and spacer plate to up oil capacity may be worth considering too.

 

Please just keep us updated and ask as you go.

 

 

Cheers for the warm welcome

Well its funny you should say that as I'm not yet in any of the pictures, but never mind, I'm sure I will be soon! Yes we have pretty much exactly the same thoughts as what you have just said! We were looking at going down the Mi16 route but thought it might be a bit much to handle for our first project so just sticking to a standard 1.9 for now. I don't usually hammer my miami blue one as its in really good nick, but kept it between 4.5 and 6k rpm down the lanes the other day, and they really do shift, so I figured if we just drove this one really hard with regular oil changes, it would still be nearly as fun as an Mi (for now anyway!).

 

No its for weekend use aswell, what would running it without a water pump do?

[dicky20014 4]

We then set about on stripping everything out of the engine bay apart from the engine (for now) taking all the wiring, pipes etc off the engine and labelling them to try and remember where they went

[dicky20014 4]

That brings us up to this evenings visit to the garage. We went down armed with fish and chips (we have 2 chairs down there too )and a bucket full of tools!

 

Fish and chips first (obviously). Then down to the nitty gritty, getting the driveshafts out - had a bit of a fight getting the droplinks off and the wishbone + track rod end bolts free, but got there in the end. I printed the sheet off the main forum of how to take the engine out (just removal section on the 1.6 to 1.9 conversion). It said about how to take the driveshafts out, but I think it meant to take the drivers side out first (we didnt realise this until afterwards ). So.....I have a *feeling* that we may have pulled the driveshaft apart on the passengers side (we didnt get chance to get onto the drivers side). This leads to the first question (of many ) :

 

 

Can someone decribe exactly how we take both driveshafts out and how to undo our mistake (If it is) please .

 

This photo shows how it came apart, we wrapped tape around it to stop the bearings coming out, we have slid the rubber driveshaft seal back a bit. I was expecting a splined shaft to come out, and thats why I think we have done it wrong?, HELP please! We are aiming to go down the garage again friday night so a quick response would be much appreciated

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

When you undo the wheel from the hub theres a big nut in the centre, this holds the driveshaft on the hub.

[dicky20014 4]

When you undo the wheel from the hub theres a big nut in the centre, this holds the driveshaft on the hub.

 

I was under the impression you didnt need to take this off to remove the driveshaft from the engine end?

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

if your only doing engine end is undo the hub clamp for the wishbone balljoint, this means you can rock the hub outwards and out will come the driveshaft. On the drivers side remember to undo the hockey sticks in the bearing housing first, might need a bearing seperator to get it driveshaft out of the housing afterwards, and maybe a bit of heat too!

Edited July 24, 2009 by EdCherry

[dicky20014 4]

Yes thats what we did, took them bits off and rocked the hub until the driveshaft came out, dangling down like it is in the picture. What I'm saying is, has it split at the wrong place and left part of the driveshaft in the engine, or is what we have done in the picture right?

 

Many thanks

 

Rich

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

The principle is right but you've left a bit in the -> Gearbox <- which should just pull out now, will look like a cup almost and should have grease inside it which the bearings where in.

[dicky20014 4]

Ah right ok, yea I meant gearbox . Yes I remember it being how you described it, so this bit will just pull out by hand? Then on the other side its the same principle but loosening the bolts on the bearing housing underneath first?

 

Rich

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Yer they just slot into the gearbox, and they are splined as you pointed out earlier.

 

Other side is the same, undo the track rod end and the clamp on the wishbone ball joint, the hockey sticks and your away!

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

 

Ah right ok, yea I meant gearbox .

 

Yes, and so did I.

 

If you re-read my earlier post, you'll see I never referred to an Mi engine. I suggested staying with the 1.9 8v and considering a different (lower ratio) gearbox. 2 eyes - 10 fingers!!!!

 

I miss fish and chips so much.

 

Ref the driveshafts, yes, you've left a bit in. You should jack up the front of the car ideally and stick it on axle stands; this way you can remove the driveshafts completely (even from the hubs) and it gives you access underneath for all kinds of things. Get it up highish.

 

The driveshafts are splined both ends. They are uneven as you know, but both with two CV joints. You've already broken one apart leaving half the shaft in the box. The shorter shaft goes hub-CV-shaft-CV-gearbox. Nothing holds it in bar the geometry of the front suspension and the hub nut mentioned earlier.

 

The longer shaft has to go through the intermediate bearing, and in there are those two 'hockey bolts'. They don't need to be removed; just loosened and turned 180deg. This drive shaft can need persuasion to come out, and tapping on the metal collar by the intermediate bearing usually works. Expect to make a mess with gearbox oil!!!!

 

Ref the waterpump: my understanding (and Cameron's project thread will explain it better or you can PM him) is that you replace it with an electric one, only using it when you need it, because the water pump with the impellor in the coolant being cambelt driven is a drain on power. I don't know how much, but some people even take the alternator off as it's all a drain on the engine, just like aircon and PAS. As Tesco say........every little helps.

Edited July 24, 2009 by DrSarty

[dicky20014 4]

Cheers for the replies about the driveshaft from both EdCherry and DrSarty, will crack on with that tonight, appreciated chaps

 

The reason we have put the wheels back on the car after removing the driveshaft is that the chainblock we have is fixed to the beam in the garage, so we would have to lift the engine out, then roll the car back so we could put the engine down on the ground. Otherwise we would have just taken the whole shafts out.

 

Yes, I worded that slightly wrong, I was meant to write a piece about how we were looking into different gearboxes, then how we had acutally been looking into Mi engines aswell. But I forgot to write the gearbox bit, tired etc bla bla bla. Anyway, we are in the process of buying an engine: a well looked after (we hope!) standard 1.9 with a 1.9 gearbox on (for now). Although we do quite fancy trying the 1.6 gearbox option, so I don't know if anyone has a cheap 1.6 box in good condition? Be3 I assume? as the car is 1992 that it has come out of.

 

 

The waterpump: Interesting idea, think we will look into that, so would it only need to be turned on if the water temperature started getting too high? With regards to the alternator, doesnt the fuel pump take power from the battery to run it? So if you have no alternator, wouldn't the car come to a stop after a certain length of time because the fuel pump would have drained the battery?

 

Rich

Edited July 24, 2009 by dicky20014

[Batfink 201]

have you drained the gearbox oil out first.

Might save you a spillage!

[Saveit 0]

The waterpump: Interesting idea, think we will look into that, so would it only need to be turned on if the water temperature started getting too high? With regards to the alternator, doesnt the fuel pump take power from the battery to run it? So if you have no alternator, wouldn't the car come to a stop after a certain length of time because the fuel pump would have drained the battery?

 

Yes the pump would be turned on when the temperature rises. Yes the fuel pump (together with alle of the other electric components) take power from the battery to run. And yes the pump, lights and so on will drain the battery. But those who doesnt run an alternator recharges their batteries after running the car.

 

I dont think the water pump will take up too much power as there is very little resistance compared to PAS, alternator and so on IMO (but someone can probably correct me). So i would suggest just running the standard water pump.

[dicky20014 4]

Keep forgetting to update this so I'll bring it back up to date now,

 

Right, we managed to get the driveshaft(s) out with much to-ing and fro-ing! Think we may have knackered them though as the roller bits of the bearings went everywhere! best get a new set off driveshafts off the forum then

 

We didnt have any slings or anything fancy like that, so rigged some tow rope under the top engine mount and under the gearbox, this meant we could tilt the gearbox end down and get it around the mount then lift the whole engine out of the top. This proved alot more difficult that we imagined! We had the car on axle stands so we had to 'swing' the engine out and lower it down. Note: **this is very difficult** which taught us that in future, we should put the wheels etc back on, then we can simply roll the car backwards and put the engine down on the ground instead of scraping the bumper and knocking the number plate off like we did! . Oh well, you live and learn!