Really Bad Misfire And Cutting Out

[chocolate_o_brian 0]

Hi guys, I'll try explain this as best I can.

 

Was driving home just now and there was a slight misfire around 1500rpm in second gear mainly. Little jerky but didn't think anything of it. It's been doing this for about 2-3 weeks maybe but nothing serious.

 

Anywho, went round a min roundabout and the car misfired badly, coughed and spluttered and then cut out. No violent jerks forward like I had with my knackered ign. amp a few months ago and no weird rev counter either. Just spluttered and cut out. I tried starting it and it cranked into life, turned over for about 3 seconds, started coughing and spluttering and cut out - again.

 

I checked the wires on top of the coil to see if anything was touching that shouldn't (bear in mind I'm not good with car electrics). Popped off the coil lead at the top and replaced it making sure it was tight as before. The car sparked back into life and got me to the top of my street before doing the same thing again. Was sat idleing, went to set off, it spluttered misfired badly and cut out. All other electrics were fine, so I put the hazards on and pushed it down my street to my house.

 

My neighbour saw the cufuffle and came out to see what was going on. I had the bonnet up at this time and tried starting it again. It sparked into life first time and idled ok. So I took a peep under the bonnet and saw sparks coming from where the red arrow is on the bolw pic!!!

 

 

Little tiny yellow sparks sort of inbetween the rubber cover and where the rubber wire goes in. So I turned the ignition off, took the cap off the coil again. Replaced it again making sure it was still tight and tried started her up again. Started first time and was sat idling a little high but consistant.

 

Now the HT leads (all 4 and the coil lead) are near enough brand new, not proper high end ones, but not cheap nasty ones either.

 

Does anyone have any idea about the misfire and cutting out, or the sparks, as I haven't the ££ to have it sent to a garage to be fixed. And I daren't drive it anywhere either. As above, I hate car electrics, so apologies in advance for my lack of knowledge. I hope it's a simple issue, but any advice appreciated.

 

Ta

 

Andy

[pip470 61]

Have you still got the old lead, pop that one back on to see if its the cause. Its more than likely going to be this lead that is the problem.

[wracing 19]

soak the leads in some water wait till dark and watch the lightshow......sorry im not helping

 

sounds like a bad lead may be the secondary is breaking down in the coil, new coil time?

 

james

[chocolate_o_brian 0]

Have you still got the old lead, pop that one back on to see if its the cause. Its more than likely going to be this lead that is the problem.

 

Really, even though it's pretty much new, as is the coil.

 

I don't think I have the leads, but I'll have a look and at worst can buy some new ones if it is the problem.

[chocolate_o_brian 0]

soak the leads in some water wait till dark and watch the lightshow......sorry im not helping

 

sounds like a bad lead may be the secondary is breaking down in the coil, new coil time?

 

james

 

Coil is new mate as well.

 

Don't fancy the light show LOL.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Just because parts are 'new' doesn't mean they work correctly

 

Unfortuantly its all to often parts aren't fit for purpose and break very quickly.

[chocolate_o_brian 0]

Just because parts are 'new' doesn't mean they work correctly

 

Unfortuantly its all to often parts aren't fit for purpose and break very quickly.

 

Thats what I'm starting the think. I'm unsure of whether its the lead or not as the sparks were coming from the lead itself, not the top of the coil.

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

Hello, have you tried sliding the rubber cover back along the lead a couple of mm as maybe its slid forward and isnt quite covering the metal crimp.

[chocolate_o_brian 0]

Hello, have you tried sliding the rubber cover back along the lead a couple of mm as maybe its slid forward and isnt quite covering the metal crimp.

 

Not thought of this, but would it play a part in the misfire and cutting out?

 

Best to replace the lead with a better quality one?

[chocolate_o_brian 0]

Well todays findings have proved inconclusive.

 

A mate popped round and we did the following...

1. Cleaned out the dizzy cap as it had a little oil in it.
   
2. Cleaned the brass bits on the rotor arm.
   
3. Made sure the connections on the coil were tight.
   
4. Sprayed the leads, dizzy cap etc with the Holts damp start stuff.
   

After this I tried the car again and it worked. Sat idling at normal, then after a couple mins, cough, splutter it died

 

So popped the bonnet to check for loose connections, nothing doing, so tried to start her again. Took a couple attempts with just the starter turning over, but then she started up. Conked out again soon after.

 

Left for 10 mins while I tried to see if the HT lead on the coil was at fault. No specific play or anything and seems tight. Started the car and it fired first time. Left for a min and then tried driving up my street. All was well for 200 yards, then a familiar cough, splutter and it died again. Wouldn't start up again.

 

All other electrics are fine still, and just plushed the car back down the street outside my house.

 

 

So now I am realllly stumped

 

Any suggestions?

[MrG 3]

AFM playing up?

[chocolate_o_brian 0]

AFM playing up?

 

How do you mean? Is there somethig in this that could cause it?

 

Again speaking as someone not in the know how

[MrG 3]

ah of course sorry. they are known to play up and the symptoms can be misfiring, non starting etc. Best thing to do is to swap yours with a known working one to see if that cures the misfire etc.

 

Easy swap though and also ensure the plug is connected in the side of the unit, at least this eleiminates one item if it still does it.

 

Try a search on AFM problems as I'm sure there are loads of threads on this subject.

[chocolate_o_brian 0]

ah of course sorry. they are known to play up and the symptoms can be misfiring, non starting etc. Best thing to do is to swap yours with a known working one to see if that cures the misfire etc.

 

Easy swap though and also ensure the plug is connected in the side of the unit, at least this eleiminates one item if it still does it.

 

Try a search on AFM problems as I'm sure there are loads of threads on this subject.

 

Never considered it could be that. Haven't got a spare, thats the problem though.

 

The issue is very intermittant and as mentioned previous in the thread, most ignition parts are new/under 3 months old.

[chocolate_o_brian 0]

another mates just been round with another AFM. Swapped over and the problem persists.

 

So the only thing I can of to do now is buy a brand new ignition coil and brand new ignition amp, both Bosch ones for the going rate

 

And a dizzy to coil lead too.

 

If that doesn't work, I am genuinely stumped and may have to sell the car as a non runner

[welshpug 1,657]

have you actually tested them though? might have 2 dead AFM's...

 

does it misfire all the time or does it run smoothly when it actually runs?

[chocolate_o_brian 0]

have you actually tested them though? might have 2 dead AFM's...

 

does it misfire all the time or does it run smoothly when it actually runs?

 

When it runs it's not too bad. Bit jerky at low speeds but put that down to needing setting up properly. Slight misfire on idle but it's never affected the driving. when driving normally or spirited, it's fine, pulls fine and sounds ok. Misfire when changing down gears is about the worst.

 

Thing is the car is my daily driver so I need it fixing asap otherwise my Mrs cant get to work etc. It's a time thing more than anything else, hense my thoughts on selling it and cutting my losses.

Edited July 22, 2009 by chocolate_o_brian

[DamirGTI 342]

I've had identical problem once was arcing from the HT coil lead packed with clicking sound , severe misfire cutting out etc.

 

.. and yes , it was the ignition amp ..

 

Find a known good second hand Bosch amp and try it out (but don't forget to re-apply the thermal transfer paste/jelly at the back of the amp !)

 

Damir

[chocolate_o_brian 0]

I've had identical problem once was arcing from the HT coil lead packed with clicking sound , severe misfire cutting out etc.

 

.. and yes , it was the ignition amp ..

 

Find a known good second hand Bosch amp and try it out (but don't forget to re-apply the thermal transfer paste/jelly at the back of the amp !)

 

Damir

 

I'm hoping it is something as easy as that.

 

I've just called Peugeot up, give them the part numbers for the ign amp and coil and got some horrendous prices back - couldn't even tell me if they were Bosch parts

 

Ign amp was £79.51+vat and coil 63.33+vat

 

When you had the misfire was it just like a loss of power or did it jerk the car violenty and make the rev counter go mental??

 

As I changed the ign amp a little bit ago for asecond hand bosch one. My symptoms then were slightly different as I has awful jerkyness with a misfire but the car did kind of run. Now it won't even idle, so I didn;t know if it would be the same issue.

 

If I can round it up to be the ign amp then I'll buy new and grin and bear it.

 

Edit to add...

 

Spoke to a guy at Peugeotspares.co.uk and he said he would do me the coil and ign amp for £100+vat, or 59+vat for the amp and 48+vat for the coil if seperate. Genuine Bosch parts too.

 

Seems a lot cheaper than Peugeot themselves and I'm thinking whether or not to go with both or the ign amp.

Edited July 22, 2009 by chocolate_o_brian

[welshpug 1,657]

I have run a £20 Beru coil from ECP without issue whatsoever, its the ignition amps that seem to vary drastically with the quality.

[chocolate_o_brian 0]

I have run a £20 Beru coil from ECP without issue whatsoever, its the ignition amps that seem to vary drastically with the quality.

 

The coil I have just put on is from a motor factors. Not branded or anything and cost me about £24 I think.

 

But I dunno which part of the ignition system is playing up.

 

I've heard Bosch parts to be of excellent quality though.

[chocolate_o_brian 0]

Whilst I ask, can anyone explain the oily residue inside the dizzy cap earlier. Where would this come from? Wasn't a great deal, but it had built up over a few months since changing said dizzy cap. Is there anything to check round the rotor arm just incase?

[DamirGTI 342]

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...&hl=misfire

 

Mine was started to misfire badly once it reached operating temp – started up fine from stone cold then 5min. after on my way driving to the town center it started first with severe misfire , then complete loss of power , and shortly after the misfire appearance and the power loss the engine dyed/cut out completely leaving me in the middle of the road , and I was unable to re-start it back straightway , i had to wait for a few min first and then it started back , running fine , but again after a few min. of driving - same thing ...

 

This arcing/current leaking from the lead is something to do with the amp overheating or just amp being plain mental switching the coil twice more often than usually which overloads the coil which results with rapid increase in voltage output for the standard system components/coil and this in the end results with current leaking/jumping from coil tower or HT lead (coil tower side) to the earth … or something like that , at least the way i see this problem ...

 

 

No need for new amp , buy a few spare good un's from forum members from over here (one to fit on a car now and one which will be handy for spares …)

 

List of the suitable amp's :

 

Bosch - MTR01 0227 100 123

Magneti Marelli - MTR01 94003 8501

Valeo - CD856 245510

Huco - 138001

Ducellier - MTR01 521 013D

Beru - ZM001

Lucas - DAB201 54403549

 

 

Damir

[chocolate_o_brian 0]

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...&hl=misfire

 

Mine was started to misfire badly once it reached operating temp – started up fine from stone cold then 5min. after on my way driving to the town center it started first with severe misfire , then complete loss of power , and shortly after the misfire appearance and the power loss the engine dyed/cut out completely leaving me in the middle of the road , and I was unable to re-start it back straightway , i had to wait for a few min first and then it started back , running fine , but again after a few min. of driving - same thing ...

 

This arcing/current leaking from the lead is something to do with the amp overheating or just amp being plain mental switching the coil twice more often than usually which overloads the coil which results with rapid increase in voltage output for the standard system components/coil and this in the end results with current leaking/jumping from coil tower or HT lead (coil tower side) to the earth … or something like that , at least the way i see this problem ...

 

 

No need for new amp , buy a few spare good un's from forum members from over here (one to fit on a car now and one which will be handy for spares …)

 

List of the suitable amp's :

 

Bosch - MTR01 0227 100 123

Magneti Marelli - MTR01 94003 8501

Valeo - CD856 245510

Huco - 138001

Ducellier - MTR01 521 013D

Beru - ZM001

Lucas - DAB201 54403549

 

 

Damir

 

Thanks for the indepth stuff fella, really appreciate it.

 

Kind of adds up that if the ign amp is fubared, it would make the coil work a lot harder then it needs too, thus explaining the big jump in spark.

 

I'm still thinking to buy 1 new one as the one on now is a second hand Bosch one and has failed within months. At least with a new one I get 12 months warranty or whaever on and piece of mind.

 

Do you personally think my coil is fine then and no need to change it?

[DamirGTI 342]

Dunno about the coil but mine survived this "arcing" , and i'm still using it 2years after this problem

 

Me thinks that it'll be fine ... but , i can strongly recommend that you stock for yourself this spares and stuff them in a bag and into the boot keeping this bits in the car so that you can replace them if needed on the road (add a few basic tools as well) :

 

Ignition amp.

Coil

Dizzy cap + rotor arm (could add a few spark plugs but myself i never ever had a spark plug breakdown yet !)

Set of spare leads

Fuel pump relay

AFM

 

All of these things are easy to replace on your own with min. amount of tools and on the road .. and are common breakdown stuff which are , in worst case scenario , instant car stoppers or cause of misfiring , hesitating , cutting out etc .

 

Damir