[Project] The Rattlebox

[Cameron 16]

The biggest factor to consider regarding torque steer is the distance between outer and inner CV joints - this has to be the same on both sides so that your driveshaft-to-hub angles are the same left & right. If you're moving the engine over, make sure you measure the distance between inner & outer CV's as you may need to extend / shorten the intermediate shaft to suit.

 

Sterling work as always, sir.

No idea what happened to the text size there!

[davenport 51]

As I put in my post the engine has to go over as with the std position and the new longer intermediate shaft the drivers side becomes much shorter than the passenger side...

 

the 20mm will even things up

[Rippthrough 98]

cheers Stu, might go for that, its a Saxo so S2 :/

 

funny that, group N 16v engine in the rally car I service for had 5 or 6 varying failures! BE has taken 3 years of abuse from a 170 bhp engine since converting going 200+ in a few weeks though

 

 

that said, its torque that kills them, and it's not going to be massively higher.

 

 

It's the shock loads more than anything Mei, that's why you see all the safari and dakar cars with gearboxes twice the size of even slick-shod circuit cars for the same power/torque.

[davenport 51]

Clownshoe drivers downshifting while still at 7000rpm etc dont help...

[Rippthrough 98]

Clownshoe drivers downshifting while still at 7000rpm etc dont help...

 

So, you're gonna need a bigger box?

[davenport 51]

8v mate.... I barely get to 6500

[welshpug 1,657]

7? Try 8

 

Hows progress?

[davenport 51]

well...

 

 

back off holiday and back onto it....

 

 

unwrapped the mount to find the generousity of the satchell boys knows no bounds:

 

 

 

 

first up was to machine a conical spacer for the mount, Dave had kindly sent a drawing of what I needed so it was over to the BOX-O-BILLET for a rummage:

 

 

 

ta-daaaarrrrrggghhhhhh:

 

 

 

from then on it was a case of disconnecting- gear linkage, exhaust, top hose hang the engine from the crane, rip off all the mounts, drill the shell, fit new satchel mount, modify the gearbox mount, modify the lower torque link, refit stuff.....

 

a couple of snags,

 

the big ass ally mount that bolts to the block seems to be different on mine from newer versions as it fouls of the new intermediate shaft carrier AND the holes don't line up:

 

 

 

 

but, like the proverbial something or other, the show must go on.. and after many, MANY more profanities, we had it all in:

 

 

 

 

the only tiny bit of luck I had was that with the MA box being so small I don't need to mod the chassis rail at all, its close, but will be ok...

[2052NV 24]

Very nice! think how easy the cambelt will be to change in the future

[davenport 51]

modified gearbox mounting plate showing the stud moved 20mm over:

 

 

which allows the std (uprated) gearbox mount to be used:

 

 

intermediate shaft support casting bolted up in place allowing the 307 shaft to fit in place:

 

 

next job, finish up shortening the shafts and get them away to Mr V over @ Satchells then fabricate the new 4th engine mount.....

[davenport 51]

Coming soon......

 

 

 

 

[TT205 42]

Do they come in pairs?

 

Great bit of video

[base-1 17]

YES.

[davenport 51]

Shafts tacked up ready to send off to Satchells..

 

 

 

 

 

Also finished a mobile stand for a project my dads involved with..

 

I called it an early xmas present but tbh it was always in the friggin way so needed to be able to move it easily... I think he was plotting it for weeks as it kept shifting closer and closer to the rattlebox!!!

 

 

 

 

happy xmas dad.....

 

 

 

[shalmaneser 26]

Coming soon......

 

 

 

 

 

That is very, very clever.

 

Great 'outside the box' thinking!!!

[davenport 51]

alright folks, hows things?????


been a bit quiet so my apologies for that.. this parenthood lark/work/project juggling aint easy!!!



with the engine shifted over luckily everything still operated like it should my custom gear linkage just needed some rod ends wound out, the gearbox still cleared the chassis.. unfortunately the centre scuttle panel bracket thingy was now fouling my trumpet, off with the bodies, out with the dremel, off with the bracket:



happy days:*

I then started shaping the tubes that will form the turret to lower wishbone pickup bracing, you can just about see them tacked in place on the pic:




finally the pushrod rear suspension!!!

dunno if any of you watched the clip above but its a new setup designed by my friends over @ Satchell Engineering

*non techy bods skip this bit*

the standard 106 (and many other pug) rear suspension is an odd setup in as much the wheel travel to damper stroke ratio is only 3:1 (wheel moves 3mm damper moves 1mm) this results in dampers having to be MEGA stiff and trying to control the wheel with minimal stroke.. its a big compromise...

a few people end up turreting the rear which stands the damper upright and you get a lovely 1:1 ratio, wicked!! but, if the cars going to be used in competition a lot of classes deem this mod illegal, this setup gets around the issue by retaining all the factory pickups and skinny std torsion bars and use this kit as a "helper" spring and damper unit...

*tech drivel over*

so the Satchell crew were kind enough to ask if i fancied doing a bit of guinea pig work on these new kits and try the fit to make sure the jigs/proceedures all make it a simple bolt on conversion and have been sending me a few pics of things progressing:








all I needed to do then was select a damper/coilover setup.. they used a GAZ monotube on there trial car, but... I know a few people.. 1 person in particular works for Penske, if you haven`t heard of them, have a look under the bodywork of a few current F1 cars/nascars..

knowing this meant 1 thing, they would be bastard expensive, and yes, when he quoted some prices, they were indeed at the bastard! end of the scale... even the single adjustables... but he had a plan!!

after a few days I got another message saying h`ed been rummaging among the old test units and 2nds bins (faded anodising/scratchs) and found 80% of the bits I`d need for some single adjustable units (these can be upgraded to double or triple adjustable) and I could have a finished set for about half the new cost...





as you can see there a bit grubby but tbh, the insides are mint and there a very VERY good damper.........

things have been progressing..

the first kit has been sent over for trial fitting..

My dampers and springs will be here next week and I have been asked to do a full fitting guide so will show all details then..

for now im just happy its back on its wheels.. but it needs to go lower!!

 

Massive thanks to Dave and Col @ Satchell Engineering and also Ed @ Penske suspension...

 

 

 

[davenport 51]

xmas has come early....

 

 

 

Penske dampers are now mocked up with mains+helpers+joiners
helpers+joiners have arrived for the fronts
2 new Peugeot bumpstops
and some new mirrors

 

 

 

now, I`ll say this now before someone trawls up an old post of mine.. I`m not a fan of carbon, I consider it nowt more than high tech straw and toffee, however!!!! when the right beast at the right price comes along ya get get on and ride it!! thankfully there a purposeful dull/matt finish rather than that hideous uber shiny stuff..

[2052NV 24]

holy cow that push rod set up is out of this world cool! will it be adaptable/will it fit on 205's??

[davenport 51]

there has been quite a bit of interest from 205 owners regarding a version for them... I cant comment if / when that will happen but next time I chat with Dave or Col I can ask.. I do know they are VERY VERY busy with other projects at the minute so don't hold your breath but by all means express an interest with them the more people they have asking the more inclined they will be to invest time in making them...

[GLPoomobile 958]

Cab't remember if I've said it before, but I LOVE this project

[jackherer 543]

by all means express an interest with them the more people they have asking the more inclined they will be to invest time in making them...

 

What sort of price are they? I might be interested but without knowing even a ball park cost it's hard to say.

[davenport 51]

The 106 'kit' is £640 iirc... then the dampers are extra...

 

Yes! It is a LOT of money but in its defence it massively damper ratio allowing better wheel control and if starting from a 'std' rear beam its not a massive jump from buying uprated torsion bars/solid beam mounts/high quality adjustable dampers..

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

The pushrod setup is very very clever, but for any non-competition car it would be far easier and cheaper to turret the rear end instead. The pushrods etc are only to meet competition regs that state you must use original mounting points etc.

[davenport 51]

'Easier' to turret the rear????

 

Easier!!!!????

 

I really dont agree with that... theres a lot of shell fabrication, not to mention reworking cages to tie in the new turrets.. painting.. modifying rear arms to accept the lower damper pick up..

 

Then theres the issue of retaining the arms in place as relying purely on the ARB wont stop them moving as a pair and adding forces to the seals..

 

So.. er... I fail to see how its easier than pressing 4 solid beam mounts in and simply bolting everything in place?? and unless your doing everything yourself I disagree with it being cheaper..

 

It may be slightly lighter, this kit minus dampers adds 7kilos (ish) but I dont agree with your points...

Edited December 4, 2013 by davenport

[calvinhorse 870]

I think he means rather than fabricating the pushrod system! Not just buying it and bolting it on!