Help With Throttle Bodies On Xsara Vts

[VTS_Tibi 0]

Hi Guys!

 

It seems like my plan with throttle bodies at last can transfer into reality, as I've saved the amount needed. (it was a bit hard considering I'm a student at uni., I had to save wherever I was able to )

 

I just can't decide what throttle bodies should I get... Jenvey or Colin's... in which size? how long the inlet tract should be? where do the injectors should be - at their original place or a bit far? how can I cope with inlet tmeperatures under the hood?

 

Soo many quesions I know but I don't want to throw my hard earned money into something which makes less torque and horsepower than the original setup...

A guy at the 306GTI6.com just dyno'd his car and it made a bit less than the previous figures - it can be that there's some problem cam timing vise or in something else, but this scares me really!

 

Here are the specs. of my car anyway:

 

ph.1 Citroen Xsara VTS

 

2.0 16V XU10J4RS

 

Peter Taylor stg.1 inlet camshaft

TTV lightweight crank pulley

TTV lightweight billet steel flywheel

VEMS plug and play standalone ECU - the mapping is done by a professional so it's not an issue

57.5mm exhaust system with decat (with the original exhaust manifold)

and some inlet modifications but those will be replaced by the throttle bodies!

 

the block is standard, just like the cylinder head which hasn't been removed from the car ever! so the CR is the OEM 10.8:1. bore/stroke: 86/86 mm

 

The aim is to keep the engine as it is, and get some more torque and hp with the throttle bodies.

 

 

Please help me decide what should I get!

 

 

Regards,

 

Tibi

Edited June 5, 2009 by VTS_Tibi

[VTS_Tibi 0]

anyone?

 

 

loads of guys use this type of engine in a 205....

Edited June 6, 2009 by VTS_Tibi

[welshpug 1,661]

I'd go for something like Colin Satchell/Sandy Brown throttle body setup, letting them choose which size based on your current spec, and what mods you would like to carry out in future.

[danpug 1]

And it should save you cash as well.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Colin's and Sandy's ITB set-up will absolutely work. Jenvey's will work too, but you still need to get a manifold made whereas you'd get it complete from C&S.

 

With ITBs and the spec'd list of your engine you will not fail to get a much stronger engine, if it's mapped correctly like you said.

 

If it's a road car the injectors will be best more or less standard, just firing at the back of the valves as much as possible. Colin will sort that for you though.

 

Two things confuse me a little: why have you even mentioned under bonnet temps? Unless it was a turbo engine then there's nothing for you to worry about.

 

Secondly, just because a car's BHP figure doesn't rise (but I am 100% confident in this case it will) after modifications, it does not mean the engine does not perform better. It's all about the area under the torque curve, i.e. increasing it. The BHP figure is not the whole story. I suspect however that if this is all set-up correctly, you'll go through 180BHP no worries.

Edited June 7, 2009 by DrSarty

[kyepan 291]

colin took me through some of the more detailed points of the design, and was very impressed with the attention to detail. Not only is it an elegant design, quality wise i think it's better put together than the Jenvey, because of the tolerances and approach when mating the bodies to the inlet manifold.

[VTS_Tibi 0]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Two things confuse me a little: why have you even mentioned under bonnet temps? Unless it was a turbo engine then there's nothing for you to worry about.

 

The problem is that I live in Hungary where the temperature can go up to 38-40°C on a sunny summer day!

 

So with the bodies facing a hot radiator and the air temps up that high the inlet temperature can rise up to insane values!

 

And this makes the performance worse.

 

That's it! I'm either thinking about a custom airbox over the bodies or the Pipercross 600 airbox.

Edited June 7, 2009 by VTS_Tibi

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Thanks for the replies guys!

 

 

The problem is that I live in Hungary where the temperature can go up to 38-40°C on a sunny summer day!

 

So with the bodies facing a hot radiator and the air temps up that high the inlet temperature can rise up to insane values!

 

And this makes the performance worse.

 

That's it! I'm either thinking about a custom airbox over the bodies or the Pipercross 600 airbox.

 

You lower the rad; you have to.

 

Lots of other nationalities here - inlcuding the Brits; we have hot conditions too you know, especially when on track - don't have a problem with under bonnet temps so I still fail to see why a properly matched cooling system, even a standard one won't cope or effect engine performance on ITBs either. I think you're being a bit defeatist and negative. The ITBs won't make the car run hotter, only your right foot will. A good cooling system will keep the engine operating where it should and you'll have no worries.

[welshpug 1,661]

shorter radiator, nice airbox

 

[VTS_Tibi 0]

You lower the rad; you have to.

 

Lots of other nationalities here - inlcuding the Brits; we have hot conditions too you know, especially when on track - don't have a problem with under bonnet temps so I still fail to see why a properly matched cooling system, even a standard one won't cope or effect engine performance on ITBs either. I think you're being a bit defeatist and negative. The ITBs won't make the car run hotter, only your right foot will. A good cooling system will keep the engine operating where it should and you'll have no worries.

 

so the answer is: lower the rad! ...you should've started with this... and I'm not a moron! I know that ITBs won't affect engine temperature... I was only about the intake air temperature....

 

 

will find out which rads would be the optimal!

Edited June 7, 2009 by VTS_Tibi

[welshpug 1,661]

I think the guys have missed that you are using a Xsara, but the same principles apply to the radiator and air feeds to the intake.

 

there are a few 306's usign 205 radiators, but I have heard mention of another which will do the trick and is even smaller, which one that is I'm not sure, maybe Miles could help as he's building a 306 on throttle bodies at the moment I believe

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Yes, I admit I was thinking 205 rather than Xsara, but that doesn't change the fact that you could move the rad. You started talking about under bonnet temps so my answer/query was quite fair; adding ITBs isn't going to raise the temps.

 

Naturally, if you decide to jam ITB trumpets or the airfilter right up to a radiator then you're asking for trouble, i.e. less power than you could get with cold air.

 

I'm also not quite sure where I accused you of being a moron.

 

As it's written here, everything you say has to be taken literally, which I did. If you didn't mean what you typed then it's not my fault that I understood it the way I did.

 

So in short, don't mod your engine so you feed it hot air, but I'm guessing you knew that anyway.