1.9 Gti Cylinder Liner Tolerances

[FinalD 0]

I'm in the process of rebuilding a 205 GTI's engine and I'm ready to put the head back onto the block, BUT I'm having problems with the liners...

 

The cylinder liners are meant to protrude from the block by between 0.08mm and 0.15mm. Using Hayne's suggested measuring technique of a straight edge resting on the liner and a feeler blade between the straight edge and the block results in a measurement of 0.20mm on all 4 liners.

 

I've tried pulling them back into the block using the old bolts, a metal plate and a block of oak, but none of them are budging at all.

 

Anyone got any ideas as to how I can get them within the tolerance levels? This is really peeing me off as it's all I need to do before the head can go back on and I can start reassembling the engine.

[welshpug 1,657]

they need to be checked without the seals in place

[FinalD 0]

they need to be checked without the seals in place

 

:/

 

The Haynes book says to put the seals in, then the liners. I've not actually done anything with the liner seals as the car only had head problems, and so it's that I'm sorting out, just I know the engine has been cranked with the head off and so want to ensure the liners haven't moved.

 

Surely doing it with the seals out means you're getting an incorrect reading?

Edited June 4, 2009 by FinalD

[welshpug 1,657]

yep, Haynes is wrong apparently

 

there's no way to tell if the liners haven't moved really, I would drop the sump off and pull the liners up and replace the seals.

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...t=0&start=0

Edited June 4, 2009 by welshpug

[FinalD 0]

 

I don't want to strip the block...especially as it's sat on the sump on a drip tray on the garage floor next to the car.

 

Does look like this is the best option, to ensure it's correct...I still don't get why you'd put the liners in, measure the gap, then take them out, then put them back in with seals.

[welshpug 1,657]

You can't get the clamping forces that you can with the head off, so you wont get a true reading with the seals in place.

[Duroc 2 1 Cars]

I still don't get why you'd put the liners in, measure the gap, then take them out, then put them back in with seals.

 

As far as I can see it's because the seal actually sits on the beveled edge of the block. As the liner is pressed down it compresses the seal to a certain extent, but then outside flat edge of the liner rests on the flat edge outside the bevel.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

IIRC Haynes use the paper seals on their engine.

 

When I rebuilt mine the liner were flush with the block without the seals.

I just chanced it as it would mean having to skim the block, so I just went for it as there was protusion with the o'rings in

It's done 35,000 miles so far on a 0.5mm skimed head!!

[FinalD 0]

Haynes mention paper and O-ring type, but are quite useless at explaining stuff really.

 

I'm not about to completely strip the block so we're going to chance it, if it pops, it pops, basically.

 

I've been told I need to make sure the cam lobe positions are correct and the cam bolts are tight, or something...my brother doesn't explain things all that well...is this what Haynes calls valve clearance?

[CosKev 16]

I'm not about to completely strip the block so we're going to chance it, if it pops, it pops, basically.

 

You don't need to completely strip block

 

Sump off,undo the big end bearing caps and lift out the liners complete with pistons/rods still inside them

 

If you put it back together and you have disturbed the liner seals you will get water and oil mixing,so have to take off the head again,buy new gaskets/bolts etc

 

If you do it now all you have to buy is sump gasket and liner seals

[FinalD 0]

'all' I have to buy

 

As far as we can tell, the liners haven't budged in the slightest, and we're going to be very careful when we put it back together, if it does seem to be out, then the sump will come off. The way Haynes says to do it though requires box off too, and by the time you've got the pistons and liners out, you then have pretty much an empty block. :)

[CosKev 16]

I'll look forward to your'I've got water in my oil' thread then!!!!!

 

How much were pistons moved in the block without head on?????

 

It can be done easily without removing box with the engine in the car,I've done it

[FinalD 0]

Engine is on the floor...sat on the sump.

 

Pistons have been moved a fair bit, due to when it was moved a while ago it was left in gear...and I really don't get why it was even IN gear. :/

 

The liners don't appear to have moved or want to move at all, so we could well be safe. They have been measured multiple times, including when I first got the block out of the car, and after it's been cranked whilst out, and all measurements have been exactly the same, which leads me to believe that the liners are stuck.

 

I would have my build thread up on the forums, but I'm not allowed to make a new topic in the projects section.

 

If I do get oil in my water and water in my oil (), then my brother and I are very wrong and we'll have to rebuild again.

[CosKev 16]

Will all depend on how old/hard the rubber liner seals have gone.

 

The liners could have been lifted slightly and then sat back into place,this would have broke the seal but would still measure up ok now your checking

 

Hope they haven't moved for you

[FinalD 0]

Hope they haven't moved for you

 

Me too.

 

To be honest, they probably have...but at the end of the day, it's all fun and games and a learning exercise.