Problems With Stability On Track

[VisaGTi16v 1]

The Visa is only low power compared to yours but I run spacers, quite a lot of toe out and have a quaife and its fine. The only time you ever feel the quaife pulling is when on the road going round a roundabout at normal speed and you boot it, on the track I never notice it at all. I like toe out for initial corner entry and its fine to 120+ on tracks, can get a bit frisky on the road if there are undulations etc but I can live with that as its only driven to events

[Batfink 201]

it really does not sound like a handling trait, rather a handling problem.

I think its just a case of checking everything from subframe, steering, wishbones,hubs, trackrod ends, all bushes etc.

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

it really does not sound like a handling trait, rather a handling problem.

I think its just a case of checking everything from subframe, steering, wishbones,hubs, trackrod ends, all bushes etc.

 

I'll start taking down subframe this weekend and have a look, only thing I can think of maybe it can be a slight slack in on inner joint on the steering.

[kyepan 291]

If it isn't directly suspension related as you said all your components were new etc...

 

Then couldn't it just be a function of that much power through the front wheels. Torque steer is created as you have uneven length driveshafts that have different gyroscopic forces acting on the wheels, if you couple this with your diff which is constantly going to be shunting power from one side to the other with your amount of power then couldn't it just be this....

 

If you think of touring cars and the crazy suspension geometry they run to get the handling...

 

If you couple that with standard suspension components i.e bushes that might not be designed to take the loads you are putting through them and suspension geometry that isnt really cutting edge (i.e compared to renaults and fords revo-knuckle etc... that reduces the scrub radius), then it might not be one single thing but more a number of smaller issues.

this is a better way of saying what i was trying to say! cheers bales.

[bales 1]

standard rear torsionbars perchance Bales?

 

I had assumed you were going to expand on this??

[Batfink 201]

is this car running standard bushes???

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

is this car running standard bushes???

 

No it's got the red polybushes from rallydesign and spherical top mount bearings.

Can't really notice any slack in the bushes..

 

I'm leaning towards it's the diff that's causing it all as it's rock stable at all other conditions than when I have full throttle at the straights.

 

When talking about handling.

 

I have another 309 beam to go on soon.

On this one I can choose between 24 or 26mm torsion bars...

..,and 21 and 28.5mm ARB.

 

Is it wise to start with 24/21 mm setup and try that first?

 

Car has to be driven on the road to and from trackdays so I rather not end up in a ditch due to too stiff rear end either.

 

However it's tempting to put on the 26/28.5mm setup and see what happends

 

Maybe 24/28.5mm is a good compromise?

[petert 588]

I've got a very similar car to yours, other than 220hp, 350lb front springs and 1mm toe out. It pulls dead straight under power, other than exiting a specific tight LH corner, where probably a plate diff would work better.

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

I've got a very similar car to yours, other than 220hp, 350lb front springs and 1mm toe out. It pulls dead straight under power, other than exiting a specific tight LH corner, where probably a plate diff would work better.

 

So you're running Quaife and have no problems?

[TT205 42]

Quaife's can "hunt" for traction and alternately send power from one wheel to the other - it doesn't "lock-up" like a plate diff does - which could give the symptoms that you're experiencing.

 

 

My sprint car is road legal but I drive to events. If I boot it on a normal road then from 4K upwards it is all over the road, an absolute handful, especially if going up hill - which would have even less traction - possibly similar to as you describe, BUT when I boot it at an event (which is much smoother tarmac than on the roads around here) then I never/barely notice it

 

I run a quaife by the way

 

I had a worn front ball joint a couple of years ago and this made it much worse - Sarty syndrome

[petert 588]

So you're running Quaife and have no problems?

 

Just remembered it's an AP in that car.

[Batfink 201]

it must be how the quaife deals with high power?

I've driven a few 205's with 180bhp and they were well planted.

 

How much camber are you running on the front?

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

it must be how the quaife deals with high power?

I've driven a few 205's with 180bhp and they were well planted.

 

How much camber are you running on the front?

 

Not much at the moment, standard apart from 309 arms.

 

Will put eccentric top mounts on at a later time.

 

It pulls fine and stable till 5000rpm approx. Then it starts to do it's thing.

 

I've got maximum torque at 6000rpm and the power was still rising at 8000rpm in the dyno, however I did not dare to go past 8000.

[meggy6620 0]

hi there give this a read and sea what you think

 

Torque steering is the influence of the engine torque on the steering for some front-wheel drive vehicles. For example, during full acceleration the steering may pull to one side, which may be disturbing to the driver. This either causes a tugging sensation in the steering wheel, or else the car veers from the intended path. As the torque steer effect is directly related to the engine torque capabilities, this problem becomes more and more evident with high output engines with strong torque in the low RPM range.

 

Torque steering may be confused with steering kickback.

 

 

Causes

Root causes for torque steer are:[1]

 

Incorrect sidewall ply design allowing deformation of the tire sidewall.[2]

Nonsymmetric driveshaft angles, e.g. due to

Nonsymmetric design of the vehicle, e.g. different driveshaft length

Transient movement of the engine

Tolerances in engine mounts

Different driveshaft torques left to right

Suspension geometry tolerances

Unequal traction forces due to road surface (µ-Split) in combination with kingpin offset

Open differentials may not equally distribute the torque between the two driveshafts, due to friction in the side gears etc. The same will be seen if a limited slip differential is used. Either way there is a tendency for the slower wheel to receive more torque.

 

If you want to no more have a look at wikipidia

[jackherer 543]

I've been in a 205 with 270bhp and a Quaiffe and it was rock solid under full throttle to silly speeds, the problem you have isn't the diff IMO.

[vern 0]

I had a the same problem on my turbo 205 (only about 250BHP) on hard acceleration the car would become very unstable, with small imperfections in the road pulling the car all over the place, this was with GAZ shocks and Eibach springs and a standard rear beam. Normal driving the car was fine with no problems, it was most noticable when overtaking. I found the back was squating down under acceleration, hence lifting the front. I found fitting thicker rear torsion bars improved this greatly making it almost non existent. As for the quaife when the car only had about 230BHP it was perfect and made for a very smooth power delivery, steering etc. But increasing the power by only a small ammount to about 250-260BHP it made the diff a lot more snatchey coming out of corners etc.

[309PUG 2 1 Cars]

If you want my advice, then I believe it is just your tracking that is out, ensure your toe in/out is correct. Don't take it to a garage set it yourself it's easy to do.

 

Chris

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

If you want my advice, then I believe it is just your tracking that is out, ensure your toe in/out is correct. Don't take it to a garage set it yourself it's easy to do.

 

Chris

 

Yes I was planning to do this, well at least try to do some minor adjustments to the tracking, like trial and error to see how it affects it.

 

By the way, you remember the coilovers you sold me many years ago? I

 

Anyway I have them on the 205 now and it's a nice and firm ride, however a mate commented he thought they are too stiff (dampers possibly?) to get proper grip through corners at the trackday I attended.

 

Did you have any experience of these dampers on the 309?

[309PUG 2 1 Cars]

Yes I was planning to do this, well at least try to do some minor adjustments to the tracking, like trial and error to see how it affects it.

 

By the way, you remember the coilovers you sold me many years ago? I

 

Anyway I have them on the 205 now and it's a nice and firm ride, however a mate commented he thought they are too stiff (dampers possibly?) to get proper grip through corners at the trackday I attended.

 

Did you have any experience of these dampers on the 309?

 

Yes I do remember, glad you like them, I think they were specced for rallying and the dampers were never fitted to my 309, as you could probably tell as they were nice and shiny.

 

Chris

[monty69 6]

Is the camber adjustable, id be thinking the 309 arms might not be helping