Gti6 Or 2.0 Turbo

[Guest leelee]

gti6 or 2.0 turbo. i was just about to buy a gti6 engine and gearbox, then i was given a book about "sporting 205's", ha. but it said that the 2.0 turbo from the 406 is much better because due to it being a mild turbo you can have the ecu reprogrammed, presumably upping the boost quite a lot taking it from 150 to 200 brake. this seems like a much more economical way to 200 brake as a gti6 would need a new cam and reprogram at least to get those figures.

 

however the gti6 does have the six speed, so whats faster?/more economical for a conversion?/easier to drop into the 205? and does the reprogram throw the 2.0 turbos reliability out the window?

[dcc 855]

After a recent experience, I dont think I could ever willingly own a turbo engine. For my liking, the power band is very narrow, alot more maintenance and a somewhat more difficult conversion conversion.

 

Gti6 is heavier, but as prooved by many on here, is a very tunable engine at a very cheap price. Throttlebodies and decent management gives expected results of circa 185-195bhp mark. A good cam and a decent map and you would be looking at the 220 mark.

 

This is just my opinion!

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I agree I'd go N/A everytime. To me it's more in character with the road car and its general use. (T16 is an exception, but likewise I've heard it's a pig to drive).

 

And on a seperate matter - relating to another concurrent thread - why can you not be bothered to use capital letters please LeeLee? I'm genuinely interested in this new phenomenon plaguing this forum. 'They' couldn't get us with txt spk, so now it's lack of capitals!!!

[Guest leelee]

I agree I'd go N/A everytime. To me it's more in character with the road car and its general use. (T16 is an exception, but likewise I've heard it's a pig to drive).

 

And on a seperate matter - relating to another concurrent thread - why can you not be bothered to use capital letters please LeeLee? I'm genuinely interested in this new phenomenon plaguing this forum. 'They' couldn't get us with txt spk, so now it's lack of capitals!!!

 

im sorry my lack of capitals annoys u but i dont think im going to start doing it. its probably due to the fact that any work processor or other program automatically puts the capitals in for u so i cant be arsed. Thanks fors the reply though (ha ha). so would the gti6 be faster? the extra boost pressure would put a lot more pressure on the turbo and it would be quite an old engine anyway so im leaning towards the gti6 again.

[Toddy 7]

im sorry my lack of capitals annoys u but i dont think im going to start doing it. its probably due to the fact that any work processor or other program automatically puts the capitals in for u so i cant be arsed. Thanks fors the reply though (ha ha). so would the gti6 be faster? the extra boost pressure would put a lot more pressure on the turbo and it would be quite an old engine anyway so im leaning towards the gti6 again.

 

1) Ther gti6 kan suffa premetur bawr ware witch kan rezult in lowa comprezion.

 

2) Git6 Lowa pules sumtize slip cauzin incoreck kam timin witch kan rezult in spackured engin.

 

3) GIT6 Minimule valv tu pisteon clerence rejuices availabillyty of replazemant kams.

[dcc 855]

ye m8 it wud b propa wikid init lik top 10 fast ngins 2 put inda kar cos it iz an lol fast ngin.

[wracing 19]

turbo all the way, a correctly set up turbo can have a huge power band.

 

turbo is the cheaper way to big power (250+) in my opinion. i have found that reliability is almost unaffected with the correct setup. part throttle fuel economy can be improved.

 

which ever way you go there is no point reprogramming the current ecus to accept cams, more boost, etc, etc you really need to go programmable, and usually going programmable will create a more drivable, high output engine.

[GLPoomobile 958]

im sorry my lack of capitals annoys u but i dont think im going to start doing it. its probably due to the fact that any work processor or other program automatically puts the capitals in for u so i cant be arsed.

 

Then I'm frankly surprised that anyone can be arsed to answer your query! It's also the type of question that has been asked loads of times, and there are loads of topics that debate the character of the 2.0 Turbo, and how it copes with being modified. I appreciate the the search engine is not always the easiest way to a quick answer, but if you can't be arsed to do a little bit of research, can't be arsed to make an effort with the English language, and can't be arsed to abide buy the forum guidelines that you agreed to when you joined (not using text speak - u instead of you etc), then why should anyone be arsed to help you out?

 

Hence you've already had a few piss taking replies

Edited May 25, 2009 by GLPoomobile

[pugman211 0]

Surely you need to tell people what you intend to use the car for aswell. Road/track day etc etc. But like other people have said, you need to do a bit of research. Are you after the quickest conversion or the cheapest??

 

 

On the other hand, it took me longer to read the "txt" speak replies than it did the whole thread. lol

[hexhamstu 9]

Have created a new thread about using perfect grammar here http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=106083

Edited May 25, 2009 by hexhamstu

[Goliath 94]

Are we really going to enforce perfect grammar? I dont always hit the shift key at the start of every sentance but it's still perfectly legible, so are we really going to carry on with the crusade? I fully agree with bought not brought and not use 'txt spk' etc. but making sure everyone uses capital letters where appropriate could be going a little to far?

 

Thats not the point, the point is when someone purposely avoids using capitals because they 'cant be arsed'. I highly doubt anything would have been mentioned if only once had the OP missed off a capital letter. I think it is annoying when people don't put some effort in to at least making it look like aren't some cave man who has to spell phenetically (sp?) or cant use comma's/capitals, etc.

 

If you 'can't be arsed' to abide by the rules then why did you join leelee?

[Death_Machine 0]

i got an mi16 engine in my car was thinking of swapping but i love the power band of the mi so i got an xm engine turbo ecu loom alt start mot and all pipes sitting there waiting for someone to buy off me so i can go get me 309 gti beam!

[Death_Machine 0]

sorry if my grammer isint to everyones standard but capitals and full stops and all that shxt aint really my strong points ha ha diff stroke for diff folk its not a matter of cant be arsed it dont know where and when if you get what im saying

[Goliath 94]

if you get what im saying

Funnily enough I don't get what you are saying?

[dcc 855]

I dont either, I've read what you have splurted out atleast 3 times, and yet all I got was that you have an normally aspirated mi16 running on turbo management?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

sorry if my grammer isint to everyones standard but capitals and full stops and all that shxt aint really my strong points ha ha diff stroke for diff folk its not a matter of cant be arsed it dont know where and when if you get what im saying

 

*Breathes*

 

I nearly typed "Give me strength", but you had the honesty to say it wasn't you being lazy but that it was something you weren't terribly good at. That takes guts.

 

However: please make an effort, as what you have typed and the way you have typed it will just make people ignore what you're saying. Surely you don't want that? I don't, as you may have something very valuable to say. The mixed jumble of street talk, jokes which are funny to you and a sentence which needs deciphering leave an impression that I would guess you don't wanna leave.

 

Please just consider a comma as a breath (pause) and a full stop as another one where you give people a chance to think about what you've just said. If we don't "get what (your) saying", we'll tell you; so please don't ask that.

 

Back on topic>

I would say there is a split in opinion on turbo 'versus' N/A, just as some people go down the Golf route and others down the Pug route. It must just be one of those tea or coffee types of thing.

 

Neither is wrong, and whilst there is certainly loads of fun to be had from a blown engine, I suspect it's easier to do it wrong and for things to go very wrong very badly. Done right I suspect they're brilliant, although it must be agreed that there's a slight compromise as the engine isn't always on boost.

 

A N/A engine is pretty much on tap all the time, and with 16v you also get a similar surge and change of character, with far less likelihood of breaking traction.

 

As Death Machine said (kind of): it's different strokes for different folks.

Edited May 26, 2009 by DrSarty

[petert 588]

Two whole generations have passed through Australian schools without formal grammar training in English. They have finally realised the error of their ways and re-introduced it.

 

What's this thread about?

[bales 1]

Regarding the original question I think you need to have a ride in one and decide which you prefer as they are both veru different in character.

 

I have a turbo now but if I change the engine again it will be for n/a, which isn't to say I don't like the turbo engine but I just fancy a change. In the right situation they are awesome and I think for a £/bhp ratio they are initially the better option.

 

You can get them to approx the 200bhp mark but bear in mind you lose quite a bit of drivability and it enhances the turbo characteristics of the engine. But they are very quick in the mid-range and make a very good point and squirt kind of car.

 

For example I went up to the lakes in mine yesterday and had a great drive, on the motorway they are unbeatable really, I timed mine at 80-100 in approx 4s when its on boost which is pretty quick!

 

However strangely you get used to the power very quickly as its a bit like a very fast turbo diesel car....all the torque early on so you get a massive push in the back, then as the revs climb it tails off and is all done by about 5k, so it is curiously unsatisfying in an absolute straight line even though it is very quick...

 

But if you only have short straights with lots of corners its very good as you just get time for a quick burst of boost without having to wait for it to climb on cam like a revvy n/a engine.

 

Though what kind of cements it for me as that I also have a CTR and every time I drive that and it comes on cam at 6.5k then screams to 8k all the while pullling harder and harder I never get bored of that. Plus it punts along a 1200kg car very well indeed so in a 205 it would be perfect!! up to 6k rpm for most cars and the 6.5-8k for anything this side of a 911!!

 

My next project....K20a in a 205...

[taylorspug 7]

What's this thread about?

 

I dont know, and neither do half the people who have posted in it. But then thats hardly suprising as they have just come on here to moan at the OP. Look guys if it bothers you that much hit the report button and leave it at that, dont clog the forum up with 2 pages of useless drivel about how people cant use the English language.

 

Its the same few people every time- are you the spelling police or something?

 

Leelee- If you have a search there have been a few topics which cover the 8v turbo vs 16v NA debate over the last few months, all with relevant experiences from both sides of the coin. From my POV even after driving a tuned 8v turbo its 16v all the way. Suits the character of the 205 alot better and has a much nicer delivery of power IMO.

[sonofsam 5]

leelee drop me a PM if you want a passenger ride in my 205 2.0Turbo( I live near Portsmouth), it's getting chipped this week to run 1bar but we can swap ECU's over to standard so you compare for yourself if you can get a ride out in a '6 205 also

that would be good!

[Luca 1]

IMO either way you will have a quick car. Althugh if you're thinking about using it on the street as an everyday driver then maybe try do what I did and chaise max power and torque down low (as in from 2750 rpm thru to 5000) that's when you will have the best 'driving' car.

 

There's a fella who has changed the crank and pistons etc of a 16v motor to get a bigger capacity, if you're chaising hp then more cubes is how you're going to get it.

[Guest leelee]

well hello again, i originally posted this topic a bit ago and havent had a chance to check for replys for some time i thought i would chuck a couple of thoughts/answers out there to move the topic forward.

 

1) regarding Sonofsams invitation for a ride in his 205, that would be amazing but whats a PM. i think that would really help with my decision as i would liek to get this project on the go as soon as possable.

 

2)i think my comment of "i cant be arsed" regarding the use of capitals may have been interpreted incorrectly. the way i see it (i cant believe im bringing this back up) is if someone is completing a important document, for instance a project or pitch then the programs they use will automatically input capitals aprt from when names are used usually. im not going to be sending this email to jesus and if i did i dont think he would even care that i didnt use capitals (and my grammer is usually ok and i dont use text speak). i joined this forum to help me with what i loved, my 205, which brings me onto my next point.

 

3) the car is a 205 1.6 with a 1.9 engine and a 1.6 gearbox at the moment. i plan on completing the conversion (which is looking more and more likly to be the gti-6 conversion) to make the car faster, and more fun to drive. its entirely a road car although i may go on track days in the future. i have been looking at the cheapest way to have the most amount of fun in these 80s/90s hot hatches for some time. i originally wanted a mk2 golf with a 20 valve turbo but after months of accessing the cost relised it would be very expensive. then i test drove a 1.9 gti and here i am! my plan is to drop the engine in, get it working and thats it. i dont really want to take the engine apart which is why i was considering the reprogramming of the ecu as a possable improvement on power. i was told that the gti6 ecu can be reprogrammed without the need for a aftermarket ecu. ive stripped the cars interior, but left the electric windows, put koni springs and dampers on the car which dropped it 30mm and the car is running the 1.6 braking system.

 

thanks to everyone for the replys. i hope this helps all of us. i know sometimes the written word can be construded as sarcastic but i in know way intended this. cheers

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Super reply. We're glad to help; in some ways you never knew.

 

Nobody particularly wants to strip and rebuild their engine, but you must appreciate the age of some these engines and each of them has their own issues.

 

One example is the GTI6's known characteristics (some say 'chocolate pistons' on the GTI6 and both Mi's and 6's can get rattly top ends that a good lifter refurb can sort out), and therefore people rebuild them for peace of mind.

 

That isn't to say you can't just find one and drop it in; many of us do. There's just a gamble involved that some of us - with or without knowing a lot of history of the engine - choose not to take and refresh the engine before wanging it in. It adds to the enjoyment in many ways too.

 

Good luck. Maybe do a project thread soon eh?

[Guest leelee]

i see what your saying. thats why im willing to pay more for a lower milage engine. i have seen 66000 miles going for 500 quid, so a new cambelt and it should be quite reliable. "should" being the operative word! i understand its always going to be a gamble.

 

so whats a PM then?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

so whats a PM then?

 

Personal Message.

 

You can PM people on the forum. Click on the arrow to the right of user name above the avatar and you'll see. It'll take you to your messages screen and it's all fairly self-explanatory from there.

Edited May 31, 2009 by DrSarty