kyepan 291 Posted December 24, 2012 He didn't take much off the block I don't think, just faced it enough to get the protruderance right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyepan 291 Posted January 8, 2013 a quick update... firstly it really struggled to start last sunday after a week standing, barely ran on two for the first couple of minutes, then gradually ran on three, then eventually ran on four after going round the block a couple of times, but was certainly off the boil. Paul suggested removing the plugs and checking the cylinders for moisture, all were dry, but the plugs.. well, have a look for yourself. A new set of plugs and we're back to business, fired on the key, and to be quite frank is back on full song, surprisingly quick. I wanted to ask about breathers, mine seems to prefer breathing through the dipstick than the filler tower and breather i have off of that. has anyone else on a throttle body setup experienced this? or can give advice on how to encourage it to breath through the header tank?Cheers J Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,657 Posted January 8, 2013 Cold start fuel needing some work? I know this can be quite tricky as you only get one shot a day! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 191 Posted January 9, 2013 Quite often starting problems like that are down to a tired starter pulling too much current away from the management. It should start easily with no to a very small amount of throttle. Change of plugs after time often helps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyepan 291 Posted January 9, 2013 it'll fire sandy ,i think it's more due to the air leak on the orings i still need to fix, and the fact it sits in london traffic at idle, when the air leak is throwing the mixture out most! once remedied i'm sure it will be fine. cheers J Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyepan 291 Posted January 15, 2013 Mayo - i like mayonnaise, but not in my breathers. My catch tank was half full of it, so after securing the dipstick with cable ties it's finally catching something. Drained cleaned, and the gauze removed. In addition i've got a new dipstick on order as the seal on the one i have has gone and it keeps popping out and covering the engine bay with a film of oil. The catch tank is plumbed in to the outlet to the filler tower, so that's basically a replacement for the recirculation back into the inlet on a non throttle body setup. New thicker non kinkable hose on order for the catch tank, i would rather the engine breathed properly and deposited oil in the catch tank, rather than didn't breath properly and became a mayo monster. J Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,003 Posted January 15, 2013 Why'd be questioning why there's so much ending up in the catch tank, as really there should be very little, particular during road use. Check and double check that the original breathers aren't kinked, collapsed or blocked (including with mayo gunge), as if they are it'll pressurise the crank case and breath heavily, filling the catch tank. Remove them, flush them through, inspect for damage, and then refit making sure that it's all routed nicely and not bent/kinked. Friend's Mi16 had the same issue you're having, and it turned out to be that the main oil filler pipe had been installed in such a way that the union on the block wasn't the lowest point of the pipe, meaning that oil pooled in the breather at the lowest point, the crankcase couldn't breath as the breather was then blocked, and promptly pressurised and spat the oil out into the catch tank. Moving the breather fixed it and it didn't spit anything further into the tank. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyepan 291 Posted January 15, 2013 good advice, thanks Ant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyepan 291 Posted January 17, 2013 The engine is now breathing noticeably (normally), it managed to fill a small plastic bag one litre in about 20 seconds, Consider that a new 1900cc engine with 0.5% blow by would produce about 4.75l at 1000 rpm in a minute, so that's a fairly normal amount of blow by. http://www.106rallye.co.uk/members/dynofiend/breathersystems.pdf The dipstick i ordred from ebay is far too long! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,003 Posted January 17, 2013 An 8v one will be - you'll need to cut it down and mark the min-max appropriately to suit an Mi16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyepan 291 Posted January 17, 2013 cut down and marked accordingly! Fits many times more securely than any one i have had previously! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyepan 291 Posted January 22, 2013 Hoses and new rad for the heater matrix are here, lets see what happens with the water level once changed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Simes 248 2 Cars Posted January 22, 2013 Just FYI, my catch tank plumbed the same as yours has collected about 250ml of 'condensation' in 3500miles. Mainly driven in high ambient temps (summer). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyepan 291 Posted January 22, 2013 Just FYI, my catch tank plumbed the same as yours has collected about 250ml of 'condensation' in 3500miles. Mainly driven in high ambient temps (summer). ok noted, i think mine did a similar amount in similar miles, my plan is to get it breathing well first, then worry about the amount and consistency once it's breathing. There is a noticeable breath coming out of it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baz 421 Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) That doesn't seem to bad IMO then, unless it's really drastic i wouldn't worry about it! You can see how much my 8v breathes here; (catch tank vent near the slam panel, quite noticable!) Edited January 22, 2013 by Baz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyepan 291 Posted January 23, 2013 yes! lots thanks for that, feel a bit more normal now! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyepan 291 Posted January 25, 2013 It won't start. It's been struggling to start in the cold weather for a while but seems to be getting worse, was also was backfiring when it nearly started. Cranked for a good couple of minutes in total. When i say struggling to start let me be very specific. It will fire and turn over on what sounds like 2 cylinders, touch the throttle and it dies, if you leave it for 10-15 seconds eventually you can rev it and it will clear.. but before then it's stuck in this limbo where it can't do anything until it's done a certain number of revolutions, or reached a certain point. Lifted the (new) plugs out and they were wet with fuel, number 1 seemed to have exhaust gas swirling around in it. All were moist with fuel. Cleaned them off and put them back in, won't fire at all. I'm thinking perhaps i need to take the plugs out, let the bores air. Could it be that because it was mapped in june, and not from cold, it's now struggling to start in the very cold weather... we pretty much had it starting straight away when the dta was first installed even on a base map.. nothing like this where it's struggling to fire at all. My thinking is, Plug the dta in quicky and see what it says, Check the water temp sensor is reading. Check the crank angle sensor is also showing. Check what the air temp sensor is reading. and see what's what.. I need the car running tomorrow....bugger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyepan 291 Posted January 25, 2013 Plug the dta in quicky and see what it says, Check the water temp sensor is reading. Check the crank angle sensor is also showing. Check what the air temp sensor is reading. and see what's what.. Water temp sensor says 8 degrees. Air tem says 2 degrees. Both reasonably accurate, considering it did nearly run a bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,003 Posted January 25, 2013 Getting cold starts right can take a bit of trial and error, and it's perhaps no surprise that it might need a little tweaking for sub-zero starts. If it starts but is very unhappy running / responding to throttle for the first few seconds, I'd guess it's probably the post start enrichment that's a bit amiss. Before assuming it's anything mapping / ECU related that's amiss though, you are sure that the bodies are balanced and you've properly sorted the air leaks aren't you? Either of those being wrong will make things much much difficult, as will the TPS not being properly calibrated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyepan 291 Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Checked tps, Yes there is still a slight leak on one body, but the rest are ok, was waiting till the hand was better before sorting. At current temps Water temperature -20 to 10 degrees celsius + 31% fuel compensation Air temperature -0 to 5 degrees celsius +6% fuel compensation from 0-200 turns of the engine at these temperatures the start fulling dictates the following enrichment. 10 turns 113% 20 - 46% 30 - 28% 50 - 32% 60 - 22% 70 - 16% 80 - 11% 90 - 7% 100 - 6% 150 - 4% 200 - 0% Bearing in mind when running, it's fine, even in and around temperatures of zero degrees, it's fine, we're just talking about cold start, in or around zero degrees celsius. giving the battery a good charge and will give it another go later. ps i'm not blaming the mapping here! Edited January 25, 2013 by kyepan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vili 18 Posted January 25, 2013 Have checked what sort of revs do you have when engine is stumbling after start? Does your ecu come out of cranking mode? I'm asking because ecu uses some fixed (adjustable) value for spark advance at cranking mode which can be wrong for idle. Running on 2 cylinders sounds like spark problem. You could also try to add 10% fuel to 20-150 turns and see if goes worse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyepan 291 Posted January 25, 2013 transition from cranking is 950 rpm, I have a spare new set of plugs also, the last set have only been in the car for about 10 mins running time! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyepan 291 Posted January 25, 2013 reading 12.5 v after a charge but upon cranking it was the same deal, so i've left it on charge for another go later. Plan for this evening: Take the plugs out, unplug the injectors crank her over, leave for a bit drop a smidge of oil down the bores to help it seal. Put the other NEW set of plugs in, and spin her over, if it runs i'm going to take her out warm her up and thrash her within an inch of her life, just because she's causing me heartache. Sandy very kindly texted to say he was mapping on the dyno, but had a look over the map and can't see anything immediately untoward, with the exception of something relating to the lowest temperature being 0 that i didn't quite understand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vili 18 Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) I don't know if it makes any difference, but I have transition from cranking at 700 rpm. It could be that your engine never reaches 950 rpm at cold start and doesn't get to normal idle. At what rpm is your warm idle? I have to ad that I'm not an expert by all means. I've only mapped one car, but it runs fine. Second edit: It might be just a daft battery. If you're having 12,5 v after charge your battery is pretty much done. Voltage at start drops probably to around 10 v and there not enough current for the ecu or spark. Edited January 25, 2013 by Vili Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petert 587 Posted January 26, 2013 Here's some settings from my car if they're any use to you. I've never tested under 5 deg C however. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
