[engine_work] Xu9j4 Mi-16 Rebuild

[kyepan 291]

Ha ha..

[petert 587]

Despite the above advice, we put the liners in one by one, because the washers we had to camp the liners down would have fouled on the piston ring compressor.

 

I'm confused by this. If the piston/rod assembly is already in the liner, why would placing the liner in the block have anything to do with the ring compressor?

Edited December 13, 2011 by petert

[kyepan 291]

Sorry, i meant If we had taken all of them out of the liners, put all the liners in the block, clamped liners. Then the ring compressor would have fouled on the big square washers that were used to hold them in .

 

Also Peter, the sprocket and key, I noticed some balancing marks on them. Are they factory balanced? As I've just realizes I've spent all this money on the balancig, and I'm about to put an unbalanced sprocket and key on there..which could quite easily undo all the good work.

[petert 587]

The mass/radius of the sprocket is negligible compared to the rest of the rotating components.

[kyepan 291]

understood, will be taking it to be balanced on monday, just in case.

 

Cheers

 

J

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

Take this with a pinch of salt because my memory is fuzzy on this! But..

 

I tried to get the full gti-6 oil setup on my Mi16 alloy block as well but found that using the sprocket with the flange/shank wasn't doable. I even bought a GTi-6 crank pulley wich serves as a nice shiney expensive paper weight! In the end had to go back to the Mi16 flat sprocket arrangement that uses clamping load. BUT it was from some other model. Iron lock Mi16? or xsi or something that had more teeth for the longer chain. So still managed the bigger sprocket, longer chain and GTi-6 pump but with a different sprocket, may even be a thread on it by my self somewhere.

 

Sorry for not being clear, hope you see what I mean or prove me wrong either way when you assemble.

 

Cheers,

Henry.

 

edit: http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=116418&st=10

Edited December 13, 2011 by Henry 1.9GTi

[kyepan 291]

but found that using the sprocket with the flange/shank wasn't doable.

 

So... yes, i was worried about this, because of two reasons.

 

1) the total depth of the XU10 sprocket and shank vs 1.9 sprocket and flange / shank.

 

other wise

a) the bottom pulley may be out of alignment and cause belt issues,

the bottom pulley may foul against the oil seal, because there is no flange section on the XU10.

 

2) the diameter of the XU10 shank vs the xu9 shank

 

because

a) the seal ID could be less or more than the UX10 shank

 

Upon measuring them in combination, the shanks were the same depth, so the seal should not be fouled, as for diameter, i need to measure again before giving the final answer on whether it can be used.

Edited December 13, 2011 by kyepan

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Might help

 

If you can get an early gti6 oil pump sprocket, it'll work as you'll retain the XU9 shank. But is still clamped by friction.

[kyepan 291]

So as we suspected there is a difference in depth, an additional 2mm, secondly the xu9j4 flange holds the belt in place and away from the oil seal./ end plate. So basically the other designs have the cam belt flange on the pulley, and using this pocket there is nothing to stop the belt walking off the edge of the pulley.

 

Additionally a it offers the belt some subtle guidance with a nice little chamfer and locates it very tightly (1.3mm clearance) for the wider pump and cam pulley sprockets.

 

 

I was on service box and petert's website trying to understand if there was an alternate sprocket, So I can retain the flange and not get into problems with the cam belt.

 

All of this before reading Paul's post, which confirmed everything.

Early xu10j4 engines have the 26 tooth sprocket, these are NFP

Early xu10j2 engines have the 26 tooth sprocket, these are NFP

I can't see an example of the early xu10j4rs sprocket that Paul mentioned, and quite possibly had, on service box..

 

So I am not going to use the later key way sprocket, because of the way it doesn't guide cam belt. And need a 26 tooth sprocket.

Edited December 15, 2011 by kyepan

[kyepan 291]

NFP does not mean no further production... or if it does it doesn't necessarily mean that stock doesn't exist.

 

Jas at West london motor group (pug slough) has one coming tomorrow!

 

S-16 26 tooth sprocket 0513.54

as welsh pug just put up on my post.

 

Winner.

[welshpug 1,657]

its not marked nfp though

 

are you getting confused ? you're talking about timing belt sprockets then ask for an oil pump sprocket?!

Edited December 16, 2011 by welshpug

[kyepan 291]

mmm... then i must have been tired when looking at service box.. as the way i went in . 405, earlier, 2.0l .. NFP. to be fair i didn't look at some of the other alternatives like the xu7, as i was not confident they were the same.

 

i'm just not very good at writing the posts. he he

 

basically what i figured out is that the bottom(cambelt) pulley is the one that aligns the belt for the other cam belt pulleys, as it runs the least clearance and in all variants has guidance for the belt not to run off the ends, either through the flange on the xu9 or the bottom pulley design itself on the later key way versions.

 

so this is why i'm mixing the two topics, but was struggling to get my head round it, then say what i meant.

Edited December 16, 2011 by kyepan

[welshpug 1,657]

ahhhh the 22t sprocket is nfp.

 

the timing belt sprocket itself is the same between XU9J4-XU10J4, as is the spacer under the oil seal, so I dont get where the differences are coming from

[Anthony 1,003]

the timing belt sprocket itself is the same between XU9J4-XU10J4, as is the spacer under the oil seal, so I dont get where the differences are coming from

Because by the sounds of it he was trying to use the XU10J4R/RS oil pump drive, which is a different design

 

The XU10J4 one he's ordered will work just fine, as like you say, it's the same fitment as the XU9J4 (just 26t instead of 22t)

[welshpug 1,657]

ahhhhhh yeah they have a recess on the back of the timing belt sprocket to allow for the slightly deeper oil pump sprocket/spacer.

 

if you're still worried about the friction fit issue just give it two bits of weld opposing.

[kyepan 291]

Because by the sounds of it he was trying to use the XU10J4R/RS oil pump drive, which is a different design

 

The XU10J4 one he's ordered will work just fine, as like you say, it's the same fitment as the XU9J4 (just 26t instead of 22t)

Anthony is correct, it's a different design.

[petert 587]

Did you read this?

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=133568

[kyepan 291]

Did you read this?

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=133568

Thanks peter,

 

Was it the age / wear that was the point you were making? if so, i've got a spanking new one coming from Pug, so wear should not be an issue, it's also on a new chain (again pug).

 

thanks for all the info on your website, it did help quite a bit.

 

PS.. Will a stage 2 regrind inlet cam run on three row management with your chip, for running in purposes?

[petert 587]

Thanks peter,

 

Was it the age / wear that was the point you were making? if so, i've got a spanking new one coming from Pug, so wear should not be an issue, it's also on a new chain (again pug).

 

thanks for all the info on your website, it did help quite a bit.

 

PS.. Will a stage 2 regrind inlet cam run on three row management with your chip, for running in purposes?

 

They wear out too fast. Yes, you can use that cam/chip combination at part throttle but there's never going to be enough fuel at full load.

[kyepan 291]

Today i've fitted the new 26 tooth sprocket, oil pump, chain guard, torqued it all up. And tried to make sure that the pump is aligned to cause the minimum wear on the sprocket. Once located on the fatter bolt the oil pump can still be adjusted slightly, worth noting. Then fitted the crank end plate with a bead of sealant, its bolts and torqued.

 

 

Also fitted the oil pressure sender and oil temp sender, using some of the spangly new compression washers in the bottom end gasket kit.

Edited December 19, 2011 by kyepan

[kyepan 291]

Hopefully a very kind cheesegrater and Paul have welded up the water theme housing to blank off the other pipe today, thanks guys.

 

Secondly a question, is the modine oil cooler supposed to be full of wire wool? I'm going to scrape it out with something sharp,...

 

 

Scratch that, I've spent the last twenty minutes fishing about in there with a bolt attached to my thingy retrieval telescopic magnet... And found all of this

 

Guessing it's part of the wire wool that gets shoved down the oil filler...

 

Finally, have a look at these brand new bearings, pay particular attention to the finish in the Left most and second from left, note the horizontal striationsq coming off the light, not smooth, and what's more, there is a noticeable ridge across each of the grooved bearings, that can both be seen and felt. The chamfers are Drilled off centre, and not accurate between shells..Note that the shiny bits were me being an idiot.. with the bore gauge.. Live and learn.

 

Edited December 22, 2011 by kyepan

[kyepan 291]

A quick update,

 

Last night I washed the cam cover off, and identified the oil seals that go in the three central bolt holes

 

Also washed the cam belt covers down, and found the nuts for them

 

Bought the following today to Complete i think - everything needed for the swap.

 

Plugs

Box oil

Found some exhaust studs at a motorfactor in slough (shiver) which was a luck in, as the usually brilliant Apex Fastenings on slough trading estate was closed for christmas, so i have a completely new set of studs for the fanimold to slide onto.

Locktite 5910 oil proof sealant for the sump, which will be given a good 18 hours to go off in a warm place.

 

Plus paul kindly helped me get some discount at a local HighlyFraudluents motorfactors, so we also have

 

Mineral oil for 0-50miles + pattern filter

Mineral oil for 50-100 miles + pattern filter

Semi synthetic oil for 100-500 + pattern filter

Fully synthetic oil for 500- + fancy diamond lined gold plated filter

5L of coolant.

Some other bits we might need..

 

 

Lightened and balanced flywheel

 

accompanying balanced valeo clutch cover and drive plate

 

Cheers

J

Edited December 23, 2011 by kyepan

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

One other thing we may need, (as Anthony mentioned it earlier) is containers for dumping the oil and coolant into...

 

Looks like your missing a rocker cover bolt, but we can use old one.

 

And does any body know if there is actually a lifting eye that bolts onto the head? Because there are 2 screw holes for it but i've never seen one on a MI and presume they had all been removed and lost.

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

The 2 holes on the far right of the head.

[Anthony 1,003]

And does any body know if there is actually a lifting eye that bolts onto the head? Because there are 2 screw holes for it but i've never seen one on a MI and presume they had all been removed and lost.

Yes there is, and I've got one here

 

(my "where do they go?" question was rhetorical - not as in "where do they fit?" but "where do they all disappear to?" as most Mi engines I see have one or both lifting eyes missing for reasons I've never quite understood)