Suspension Set Up ?

[SurGie 54]

Quote from Adi,

 

"The 1.6GTI front track is approx 55.1". The 1.9 front track is 54.4". The 309GTI rear track is 54.01". So as you can see from the figures, the 1.9 front track with the 309 rear beam is the closest match."

 

 

I thought the 309 rear axle was wider than the front, or is it just wider than the orginal rear axle ???

 

Does anyone know what the track is when having a 309 beam with ZX arms and 309 front wish bones and eccentric top mounts on a 1.9 ?

Also what it is when having 309 arms set 2 -ve camber as well ?

 

 

 

 

While im at it, is this the best way of fitting the eccentric top mounts and when buying them does the kit also inc

the top bolt etc that il need to fit it all ?

 

If not where can i get them inc the right size/lenth top strut bolts as well, part numbers would be a help as well.

 

 

Iv spotted this rear spring shock and arm brace set up and wondered if there is any where i could get them from or

if someone can tell me where or how i could get an arm brace bar set up ?

Its similer to the 206 GTI180/206 SW

 

 

 

 

I need to know for sure if you can still get new top suspension plates where the mounts/bearing are like the

original, or will i not need them when i get the eccentric set up ?

 

If i can get some new ones what is the part number code ?

 

 

Also one more thing, out of interest which other hubs that fit the 205 have natural neg -ve camber ?

 

Cheers for any help !!

Edited May 14, 2009 by SurGie

[Baz 421]

No direct fit OE hubs give -neg camber afaik.

 

With eccentric top mounts they're a totoally different arrangement to the std setup, you'll need suitable dampers to bolt to them also, std arrangement won't work.

 

That rear beam setup is also a bespoke one-off type design, i don't think it's something you can buy off the shelf so to speak, nothing i'm aware of anyhow.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Baz

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Arm brace? That is not an arm brace, its an anti roll bar.

[engine killer 6]

Iv spotted this rear spring shock and arm brace set up and wondered if there is any where i could get them from or

if someone can tell me where or how i could get an arm brace bar set up ?

Its similer to the 206 GTI180/206 SW

 

 

 

i think i have seen this from the late 90's - early '00 CCC. it belongs to someone called Varey or Valey or someone with similar name iirc. it should be a one off custom made product afaik.

[SurGie 54]

Cheers Baz,

 

 

I ment that brace bar with holes in it attatched to the ARB, it stops the arm from moving side to side when cornering hard, so it would

help stop the off side arm give + camber and near side - camber and stablise bith arms, iv read on here that the 206 180

has the same sort of thing as well as 206 SW.

 

I would really like this sort of thing fitted to my beam !!

 

I know i will need up rated shocks at the front for the eccentric mounts, which il be getting its just im not sure what else i need to buy

so it all fit together, ie, Koni front shocks and springs, eccentric mounts, BBM mounts, new bearings just not sure what else i have to get

as i got the rear beam figured out in my head but iv not taken a front suspension apart before so not sure the total parts il need.

 

Cheers

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

That is a blade type anti roll bar link. I don't know what you think it does, but all it DOES do is transfer the reaction from the ARB into the trailing arm. It doesn't "brace" anything. It doesn't stop the arms moving side to side, and it can't affect camber as this is fixed by the arm and the shaft in the beam.

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

arent those adjustable top mounts only suited to coilover suspension not standard type?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

You can buy the beam already made from KRS in france

[SurGie 54]

Nice one Miles, il check it out...

 

I read on Adi's on how "suspension works" posts that it stops the arms under load on a tight corner from moving side to side, the arm would

push hard against the bearing's which is where the movement would be, this ARB brace bar would help stablise the arms from

moving side to side.

 

"QUOTE from Adi"

 

 

 

Adi

 

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QUOTE

They use the rear beam but without the torsion bars. Then run turrets into the car to run longer shocks. I would be interested in you opinion on what sort of effects this would have on handing.

 

 

As I think I've mentioned to you before.......the main problem I see with fitting any type of coilover to the rear........is bracing the rear arms against sideways loading.

 

On the new GTI180 and SW, Peugeot have fitted arms from the centre of the rear tube, to the rear of the trailing arms at either side. This helps reduce the sideways movement of the arms.

This helps with 2 aspects........1. stabilises the rear wheel toe angle.....so stops the outer rear wheel toeing out more when loaded in a corner so providing more rear stability. 2. reduces load on the trailing arm bearings.

 

 

QUOTE

Will the car loose its Lift off oversteer characteristics or would that be determined by spring and damper rates?

 

 

Lift Over steer is a secondary effect and one that is really a bit of a gimmick. If the rear end was set up better to start off with.......the rear would react when the front end is loaded up. So something that is directly related to the steering at the front end. As it is.......you have to shut off......when cornering......to make the rear end move more.........thats not ideal. Even the designers know that at Peugeot. But thats more to do with packaging and interior space........not dynamics and handling.

 

You can get rid of the lift off oversteer by fitting solid alloy bushes to the rear axle.

 

The firmer the rear end is set up......(in relation to the front) the more the rear will move around when the front end is loaded up. But if the rear end damping is sorted, then the rear stability when shutting off the throttle, will be better as well.

 

"In theory" by turetting the rear end and improving the rear roll stiffness, the above should be somewhere near achieved. But in practise/testing........in rallying terms especially.......the standard rear axle configuration has proved to be quicker and easier.

 

I can't give you a definate yes/no answer on this one. If the rear arms can be braced against sideways movement........then all I can say is give it a go. The damping should be improved.......and it will be easier to change the spring rate and get the right one.

 

By the way.......has anything been mentioned, or have you seen if the rear arb is mounted in a different way????

 

The company you have seen......doesn't happen to be Vic Lee Racing does it????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

See what i mean by the bracing bar effect.

Hope you get where im going with this idea as the rear arms on pug beams have a weakness due to side ways movement under

hard loading...

Edited May 14, 2009 by SurGie

[Cloverleaf 1]

What Miles has said is spot on. That's just a link bar to transfer the movement on the wheel to torsion in the anti-roll bar. The holes in the link bar are to enable the drop link (bit with the small white tie wrap on) to be moved to change the effective stiffness of the anti-roll bar (by altering the bending moment).

 

The set-up being talked about by Adi is different to the set-up in the picture (in fact the picture isn't even turetted).

 

I don't know anything about the 190 or SW set-up, but sounds like a tie bar.

[Rippthrough 98]

Yes, on the 206 SW you get a brace bar, but that isn't a bracing bar, it's just a link the to an adjustable ARB, it's connected by a rose joint, not straight to the arm, and if it were connected to the arb:

 

a.) it's not thick enough to make much difference.

b.) it'd stop the suspension moving.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Rippthrough

[SurGie 54]

The thickness i agree but if you look at it it is fixed to the ARB so it would move up and down with

the ARB.

 

Has anyone done a rear arm brace before ?

 

Also do you have a link to that french site by any chance Miles ?

 

Would the bronze bushes being thicker help with the rear arms movement ?

[Rippthrough 98]

Yes, it will move with the arb, but it won't brace the arm at all because it's connected with a rose jointed droplink...

[SurGie 54]

Does any one know the figures on the track width's on my 1st post ?

 

Anyone have any ideas on fitting a rear arm brace and what it would intail etc ?

Or have any pic's of the 206 SW or 180 raer axle set up with the brace ?

 

Cheers...

Edited May 15, 2009 by SurGie

[SurGie 54]

Any one know ????

 

Cheers...

[monty69 6]

Does any one know the figures on the track width's on my 1st post ?

 

Anyone have any ideas on fitting a rear arm brace and what it would intail etc ?

Or have any pic's of the 206 SW or 180 raer axle set up with the brace ?

 

Cheers...

I have some pics on my fone, msg me your mob number an il send em