[project] Sarty Evo II - Phase 2 Of Project Sarty

[welshpug 1,657]

surely you'd need a set of dimma front wings to cover the wheels at 306 width?!

Edited May 20, 2009 by welshpug

[hexhamstu 9]

surely you'd need a set of dimma front wings to cover the wheels at 306 width?! :blink

and it would look awful.

[Rob Thomson 6]

Getting old is a funny thing. I used to hanker after stripped out track/stage specials with minimal luxuries and maximum performance. Now that I'm getting old (thirty!) my priorities have changed and whilst I still have a secret wish to build a track special when the other half's not looking I'm getting more interested in refining the standard car.

 

I was thoroughly p*ssed off with my little 1.6 a few months ago, to the point where I very nearly convinced myself to sell it. Thankfully I saw sense and still have the little thing, and am enjoying it more and more for what it is. It's become vaguely reliable; whilst it still leaves a trail of gearbox oil behind it and shrieks after 20 miles on the motorway I'm confident that it'll start and get me from A to B without any major dramas. I'm getting back into the 205 driving experience too, I've regained the old confidence and am hussling it along the local B-roads with something approaching an adolescent verve. It's a wonderful little car to drive quickly and the old smile has come back.

 

But to get to the point, there's a list developing in my mind of the little improvements that I'd like to make:

 

• One of these days the interior's getting stripped out and replaced. Every broken clip will be replaced and every loose screw tightened. I'll find ways to stop the trim squeaking and rattling if it kills me.
  
• I want to modernise the interior light! After years of Mondeo ownership I'm accustomed to shutting the door and the light staying on for twelve seconds, just long enough to remove the DiscLok and get the key into the ignition. It can't be that hard to make the 205 do the same...
  
• I want the radio to stay on when I switch the ignition from P2 to P1 without a five second interuption whilst the radio works out if it's being switched off or not. Mondeo's radio can cope with that so why can't the 205's? Sure it'll just be a case of updating a relay but whatever it can't be that difficult to do.
  
• I really want to fit a neat high-level brake light. After reading about a few of the chaps on here having their Pugs written off by morons I want to do that little bit extra to help protect mine. But it can't be the sort of horrid thing you can get from Halfords etc, it's got to look original... I reckon there's got to be a scrap-yard special out there somewhere, probably robbed from a Bugati Veyron or something. I'll get hunting.
  

Mechanically, there are a few things I'd like to improve:

 

• I find the steering - even the PAS on mine - frustratingly long-winded. At high speeds it's fine because you steer with the throttle, but around town I find myself shuffling the wheel like a demented gibbon to negotiate corners that don't even need arms crossed in the mighty Mondeo. I also use it for a bit of autotesting and auto-slaloming and it would be much better with fewer turns. It's getting a Xsara rack as a priority.
  
• The Jetronic engine management is crap. The kangarooing does my head in, the fuel economy's awful, and the idle when it's cold is a joke. I don't want to lose the look of the standard engine bay, but reckon an after-market ECU could be tucked under the dash without anyone being any the wiser. Maybe one day.
  
• I love the revvy nature and character of the 1.6, and it's more than fast enough to keep me entertained down the B roads... until I get stuck behind some dithering idiot and it hasn't got the grunt to overtake. I think an engine swap is a step too far, I don't want to go down that route. Neither do I want to fit a turbo like Tom. One of these days I might try to build an improved n/a 1.6; proper head, modern cam, up the revs a bit... just to make it a bit more perky.
  
• I'd like to optimise the geometry without making any major changes to the suspension. Mine's reasonably straight but it could be improved, and if it can be improved then there's no excuse for that being over-looked.
  
• Perhaps some hyper expensive rear dampers, though I'm not sure how long a pair of ProFlex would last on the road. Rebuilds every six weeks? Not sure I could ever bring myself to cut up the shell to take the turretted route...
  

 

I think that's probably just about all. A standard looking but slightly tweaked, improved and modernised 205 would be just the job for reminding me why 205's are such great little cars to drive, without pissing me off in the process or losing the spirit of the car we all love.

 

Dr. S, I hope you can find some inspiration amongst my ramblings.

 

Cheers, Rob.

[Alastairh 47]

I'd be going 306 width and using GTi-6 hollow shafts the top mounts would be special though :s

 

Why not just start with a 306 in the first place and go on a ubber diet to shift the lardy bit.

 

Al

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

go on a ubber diet to shift the lardy bit.

 

That is the 306 to be shifted then!

[Batfink 201]

I've spoken with Colin tonight and the white shell he has is possibly usable. We're going to keep costs down by him doing prep work and me doing installation of things like braided line; although he'll do the measuring and route plan based on experience.

 

is that the one with the funny bonnet scoop? Thats been around since i've known colin. At least its been in a barn rather than outside

 

I doubt I'll have much of your engine bay 'caging' Kev, although I'll take guidance on getting bang for buck whilst the fabrication is being done. I've decided to get the custom downpipe, in fact perhaps a whole exhaust made to do away with bulkhead mods, as I think the Maniflow is getting a little tired. Good pattern to work from and will be for sale if it still has life in it.

 

Most of mine is not needed. Personally I'd look at having the subframe strengthened and the lower inner wings as all that is hidden

 

I'd be going 306 width and using GTi-6 hollow shafts the top mounts would be special though :s

 

only 80mm difference in track width so possible. How do the cars subframe widths compare? If the 205 ones are wider you would need more than maxi arches lol

[jackherer 543]

We're not going PAS (in fact it's something I've never wanted as I like the non-PAS feel of my 205 as is), and to that end we just stick with a standard rack. The Xsara rack - or whatever it was Jackherer told me about - is something I need to do more research on.

 

You need PAS with the Xsara VTS rack, I tried it without and the steering effort is so much that it slows you down as you aren't confident you can get enough lock on fast enough. I've run loads of 205s with the standard PAS rack with the assistance removed and I don't mind that at all but the Xsara one is just too quick to run unassisted. I would go as far as saying its unsafe.

 

I'm not normally into PAS at all but the Xsara rack is so quick it doesn't feel at all overassisted. Even normal 205 GTI PAS is pretty good in terms of feel, have you driven one?

 

The Xsara rack is a straight swap apart from the lower column which is a little longer. I moved the upper column further into the cabin by using simple plates but you could easily modify the Xsara lower column to allow you to fit the upper column in the original place. You need to use 205 track rods as the Xsara ones are too long. Make sure you get the lower column and the eccentric bolt that holds it on, I imagine these would be quite pricey to source seperately.

 

this i would be interested in hearing more about, as moving from the mx5 to the pug, it shows up how slow the rack is, what would be an unflustered twitch of the wheel, involves all sorts of hand over hand action... Was planning to put a pas rack in, but if the xara is quicker that would be an excellent alternative. As i feel the slowness of the rack really lets the car down.

 

Its funny you should say that as the 205 I took Rich out in with a Xsara rack is actually one I built for a friend who also has an MX5 1.8 sport which shows the 205 steering up, I couldn't agree more. You'll be pleased to hear the Xsara rack is the perfect solution for you, my friend now prefers his 205 again

 

I've recently bought several Xsara racks for me and all my mates 205s, once you've tried it you can't go back.

[kyepan 291]

Cheers for the great info jackherer,

 

Sorry to go a bit off topic here and hijack slightly...but I guess its all about the rack and therefore ok.

 

What pas setup do you use on your xsara racks?

 

I've got an MI in mine and so would assume the exhaust cam will run the pas pulley...etc etc... but would need to source the setup.

 

Cheers

 

J

[maturin23 10]

Time for a seperate thread on this Kieran - I'm seriously interested in improving the steering on the Pug now I've got the feel for the set up on the Caterham. The Pug feels like driving a bus in comparison.

[taylorspug 7]

Im in the process of sorting a similar setup for my car using the Xsara rack, the diff and camber/caster is making it hard work with the standard rack. Tbh im going to use electric PAS, either a Saxo or BMW mini pump.

[jackherer 543]

Kyepan: I used a 106 electric pump but the Xsara uses a mechanical pump so the cam driven Mi16 one will be fine.

 

Ian: Go for it, you wont regret it. This is the original Xsara rack thread - http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...c=93527&hl=

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I'm still in 2 minds about the Xsara VTS steering rack with Saxo electric steering pump. It's a nice to have, not a need to have. Sure it's nice; but part of the 205 experience for me has always been that heavy steering until you hoon. Just something I like.

 

Colin is days away from giving me his view on the plan I sent him; where we can save, improve or experiment. I'm still dying to know if the white sunny shell he had in a barn is usable. His plan will also have his price in.

 

From far away, I've been further refining (read: simplifying) the plan and getting some choice parts in. EBay is my friend as well as Tom M's.

 

- I have a primed but never painted new grille. This means it can be matched to the shell when that's resprayed after lightening, fabrication and treatment.

 

- I have braided front lines. The rest of the internal lines will be copper; neatly laid.

 

- I have a new oil catch tank (polished alloy).

 

- Ferodo DS2500s for the rear too.

 

- Techniclutch fast road-car clutch incl new thrust release bearing (it will get a matched BE3 pedal to go with the BE3 1.9 box and also a new OE clutch & speedo cable)

 

- New inner wing metal coolant pipe

 

- New bumper bolts all round (big flat oblong head things)

 

- New track rod ends

 

- An OE, never used heater loom. Might as well put new wiring and plugs in for £8.50.

 

- Used but refreshable red carpet *If anyone has an immaculate, little/never used OE red carpet I'd be interested to hear from you*

 

- New 4-2-1 Maniflow exhaust manifold/downpipe. This will go off to be ceramic coated. Rest of system TBC.

 

- Flush, lockable Aerocatch bonnet pins

 

- New drop links

 

- New rear bump stops & cups with bolts

 

All this was about £500, but I did buy Dean's 68k 306 Nile blue GTI6 as well.

 

The shell will be cookie cuttered, but as said, no holes will be visible as sound deadened (on the rear) OE trim panels will hide it all.

 

My leather seats will be going to be reupholstered and refreshed soon to a Cambridge specialist.

Edited May 28, 2009 by DrSarty

[Alastairh 47]

Nice, so whats the plans with the 306?

 

Al

[Tesstuff 222]

Nice, so whats the plans with the 306?

 

Al

 

He wants me to drive it around for him for a few months, so that this red 1.6 Gti can have its badly needed surgery

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

He wants me to drive it around for him for a few months, so that this red 1.6 Gti can have its badly needed surgery

 

The 306 will be for rental at £80 per mth if anyone's interested. 6mth duration. Pray tell what's the craich with the 205 my friend? Is she poorly?

[Tesstuff 222]

Hmmm, driveshaft is very noisy on right turns , and it all feels very loose through the steering wheel, kinda like stuff isn't tightened up correctly.

 

I am pottering round at 20mph everywhere , scared to death it's all going to fall apart

 

Getting more tappety as each day passes, oil level is good, and seems to have a blowing at the exhaust manifold.

 

I am thinking all of it's 55k miles have been to the Post Office and back by an old deaf couple

Edited May 28, 2009 by Tesstuff

[chrisj21 2]

its not that bad is it?

 

It sounded tappety the other day when you popped over, i thought maybe the manifold was cracked but couldn't get a good look. I've got one if you need it DrS.

 

It looked like a good clean and polish would do it the world of good aswell as getting rid of the towbar and base model rear valance.

 

Chris

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Any news or updates Dr?

 

Maxi

[SurGie 54]

Or any picture's ?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Sorry guys; need to set your expectations.

 

Colin and I communicate quite often and he is clearing a Ford Anglia (!) job out, ready to get my shell on the 'spit' (a jig I believe where you can rotate the chassis) to start work in about 5 weeks. I should've said.

 

Lots of planning and collecting parts has gone on. Discussed/agreed for Gaz all round. Sub frame being strengthened. Not too much lightening which may weaken the shell/rigidity as it won't have a cage. Errrr, Xsara powered rack, new headlight panels and off for treatment and paint in September.

 

I have asked Colin to take snaps as he goes, but I need my red 205 2.2 to be taken down to Devon/Cornwall soon as the bonnet and rad will be needed down there for mounting bracket fitment and respray etc.

 

I may post a thread soon asking someone to take it down from Ely, Cambs to Okehampton, Devon for me, unless someone spots my appeal here.

 

So in short: all plans made, just waiting for Colin to move his current job out and start on Evo II. I believe it will be worth the wait though.

Edited June 11, 2009 by DrSarty

[GLPoomobile 958]

First dibs!

 

Seriously. I'm VERY flexible at the moment with work, and it would give me an excuse to visit the family as not been down in months.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

GLP

 

You'll have a PM shortly to arrange.

[johnnyboy666 195 1 Cars]

urm dont want to put a downer on things but i had two(!) defective thrust bearings from techniclutch (they basically shattered, and destroyed the clutch) and they ran tests on them, accepted it was their fault, then point blank refused to refund me. that and thier hideous telephone manner makes me feel it necesarry just to warn you. i mightve just been unlucky tho...

 

other than that it sounds like its gonna be a beast

[Dj_mini 7]

I think your want to take the anglia home when you see it

[GLPoomobile 958]

GLP

 

You'll have a PM shortly to arrange.

 

Bollocks, I've just realised what I've let myself in for. I was so quick to jump at the chance of driving the thing that I completely forgot one crucial point....

 

 

 

 

 

 

....it's going to mean doing a few hundred miles on 'those' wheels Oh well, I prefer driving at night anyway