Rear Beam Phosphor Bronze Bushes

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Right, so following on from this thread I'm looking at having some phosphor bronze bushes made to replace the standard poxy roller bearings.

 

So really I need to see if its worth doing, so a show of interest please.

 

Note that phosphor bronze is by no means cheap so do not expect these to be for nowt, those people who would seriously be interested please reply.

 

They would probably be machined with a 1 thou nip and would want bearing fitting into place, the other option is to make them a tighter interference but then this would need them honing to size in situ which isn't easy for everyone. Looking at making them slightly wider than standard for better support of the trailing arm shaft.

[welshpug 1,657]

I'd be up for some, I take it for honing just a cylinder honing tool would do the trick?

 

Bearing fit as in the green hard stuff that Loctite do?

 

Found my measurements of the shaft last night, the bearing surfaces on the one's I had to hand were 37mm wide which is double the width of the standard needle bearing

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

They would probably be machined with a 1 thou nip and would want bearing fitting into place,

 

could you explain this a bit better tom as i'm thick as s*it or tiered or something

 

have you thought about doing a repair kit for shagged shafts? could you turn the shafts down a little and fit oversized bushes??

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Basically machined 1 thou undersize, should be a light push fit, then retained with high strength bearing fit.

 

Regarding the shafts, whilst they are still available at £110 the pair through GSF then it isn't worth reclaiming them as reclaimed ones would probably be approaching this price once bushed and finish ground. I suppose going down the bushes route this could be possible, but would need the shafts sending to be machined to suit the bushes.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Tom Fenton

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Basically machined 1 thou undersize, should be a light push fit, then retained with high strength bearing fit.

 

Regarding the shafts, whilst they are still available at £110 the pair through GSF then it isn't worth reclaiming them as reclaimed ones would probably be approaching this price once bushed and finish ground. I suppose going down the bushes route this could be possible, but would need the shafts sending to be machined to suit the bushes.

 

fair play.

 

gottcha- bearing fit=glue in that case I prefer your first idea as the honing could turn out to be a bit of a ball ache.

 

I'm defo interested though depending on price. al

[benlilly 0]

Hi Tom,

 

I have some phosphor bronze spare as I didn't go ahead with making mine. Enough for one beam.

 

PM me if you want it.

 

Ben

[MerlinGTI 3]

Im well up for this tom, Was very happy with the lightweight 8v pulley from last time.

 

Wider sounds good, what about some little channels on the inside, in a screw thread style for grease to flow round?

 

Will these be machined to fit new GSF shafts or new Pug shafts? I hear the GSF shafts are ever so slightly smaller causing a poor fit (play) with the standard bearing setup. This could be eliminated with your bushes if machined for them specifically = cheaper shafts for all! \o/

 

Im not expecting them for next to nout by any means, but what kind off ball park we talking?

 

Cheers

[Ryan 99]

Will these be machined to fit new GSF shafts or new Pug shafts? I hear the GSF shafts are ever so slightly smaller causing a poor fit (play) with the standard bearing setup.

 

GSF supply genuine pug shafts.

[Redtop 14 2 Cars]

Since I posted the topic you related to, yes im also very interested in doing this. To get things made over here in N.Ireland at a reasonable cost compaired to the mainland is very hard. If you can get the numbers up to get a bulk buy that would be good for everyone. I can work with either of those 2 options you have at the min. Keep me informed .

[205turbo 32 2 Cars]

i have some oilon bearings being made, its a direct replacement for Phosphor Bronze Bushes and cost a fracton of the price

[MerlinGTI 3]

oilon is like a plastic isnt it? Can it take the high load weight and stresses put upon it whilst living smothered in grease (will grease harden/crack it etc..?) for its entire life?

 

I ask as im unfirmiliar with it

 

GSF supply genuine pug shafts.

 

You sure? Ive read they are different im here and Ive been told by people the same thing?!?

Edited May 5, 2009 by MerlinGTI

[205turbo 32 2 Cars]

its a direct replacement to PB and used mostly in nickel mines,

 

"A complex blended oil lubrication system, uniformly distributed throughout the product guarantees constant performance over the

whole service life of this exceptional oil-loaded nylon. Excellent sliding frictional properties, abrasion resistance and stick/slip

performance make this product a first choice for unlubricated moving parts."

[CosKev 16]

i have some oilon bearings being made, its a direct replacement for Phosphor Bronze Bushes and cost a fracton of the price

 

Sounds interesting

 

Will more be available??????

[MerlinGTI 3]

I will be sticking with The Phosper bronze methinks. I dont doubt oilon's exellent lubrication properties, but I do worry about a Nylon based product being able to withstand the constant load and stresses without becomming mis-shapen.

 

Maybe my worries are unfounded, but phosper bronze is tried and tested for the aplication we will be using it for.

[welshpug 1,657]

one thing I've heard against oilon bearings is that hey dont like being sat and will seize, how badly I don't know though.

 

 

something I have read about the 106 beams is that one of the 205 bearings fit and are wider than the originals, so dependent on how much space there is some of them will fit the 106/saxo unit, once the front end and cage are done on my brother's saxo I'll be stripping the beam apart and can check the bearings ETC then

[205turbo 32 2 Cars]

I will be sticking with The Phosper bronze methinks. I dont doubt oilon's exellent lubrication properties, but I do worry about a Nylon based product being able to withstand the constant load and stresses without becomming mis-shapen.

 

Maybe my worries are unfounded, but phosper bronze is tried and tested for the aplication we will be using it for.

 

we used phosper bronze in our mates rally car, they worked ok, but cost is a major factor, As the raw material is very expensive, Oilon is made in leicester and i've toured the factory, its now used more than Pb due to cost.

 

28craig and me were chating about it the other week and he said that Msport use it on the works Wrc cars, as he was cnc'ing it the other week for them,

if its good enough for them and there high loads it will do for a 205/309 beam

[MerlinGTI 3]

WRC cars get completely overhauled every 5 minutes though, and WRC cars dont run beam setups (at least I dont think any do?)

 

I dont mean to be arguementive, I have no experiance with oilon at all, and im certinally not saying its no good for a beam (afterall how can I), I just cant get my head around a plastic being able to take a focused constant weight + load spikes and not deforming over time. Maybe I have an out dated view on what modern plastics can acheive?

[welshpug 1,657]

well I know of some oilon bushes that are close to the right size and they're only £7.50 each.

[Rippthrough 98]

WRC cars get completely overhauled every 5 minutes though, and WRC cars dont run beam setups (at least I dont think any do?)

 

I dont mean to be arguementive, I have no experiance with oilon at all, and im certinally not saying its no good for a beam (afterall how can I), I just cant get my head around a plastic being able to take a focused constant weight + load spikes and not deforming over time. Maybe I have an out dated view on what modern plastics can acheive?

 

 

We use it on some of the rally cars, it does eventually deform under the impact loadings and needs replacing, although that's not so much of an issue on the rear beam of a 205 I would guess, but it does tend to stick and bind when the cars are stood for a little while, and then creaks like buggery.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Rippthrough

[MerlinGTI 3]

Phosper Bronze FTW!

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

At the moment I am pricing up material, after that if its a goer I'll probably trial fit the first set in my own car, then we'll go from there. Price no idea at present.

[Rom 0]

As im sure will be the case with most of the forum...depending on price id be interested. Ive just rebuilt my beam, but would certainly consider swappign the bearings over.

 

Merlin (i think, cba to check!) GSF supply Genuine shafts, i got some a few months back, came in Genuine boxes, withgenuine parts stickers and numbers. They certainly look the same to the shafts in my other beam, which i got from Peugeot when i rebuilt that one.

 

Im not very clued up on PB, only what ive come across on here. Its self lubricating i think ? What sort of service life could be expected. And would water ingress eventually destroy them, like standard bearings ? Ort is it a non issue as theres no moving parts to them ?

[jord294 92]

i've heard that the reason gsf can sell arm shafts cheaper than main dealer, is that although they do come in genuine boxes, they are in fact slightly undersize

 

can't be by much though. but i will still rebuild my beams with parts from main dealer

[BackStreetRacecars 3]

noting an interest........ yup

[MerlinGTI 3]

Merlin (i think, cba to check!) GSF supply Genuine shafts, i got some a few months back, came in Genuine boxes, withgenuine parts stickers and numbers. They certainly look the same to the shafts in my other beam, which i got from Peugeot when i rebuilt that one.

 

Nice one Rom, You and a few others now have said this Cleared the issue up!

 

I only mentioned it as im sure I read a few old topics stating they were a poorer fit than Pug ones. A clued up friend also mentioned it without prompting when I said I was going GSF for my new shafts. Welshpug brought up a good point though, the 'issue' (or not) could be with the fit with the arms rather than the fit with the bearings as I thought, which would vary wildly with the condition of the arms, not necessarly anything to do with GSF shafts, just coincidance.

 

While we are talking GSF shafts, anyone got a part number? (309 items please, although 205gti and 309gti are the same are they not?)

 

Cheers