Urgent Help Needed - 1.6 Running Fine, Now Won't Start

[Maccer 0]

Hi I have an '89 1.6 - earlier jetronic with BE1 box. Car was running fine today, drove to my parents turned her off, now she won't start back up again.

Initially, the fuel pump wasn't priming, but it would turn over. Initially checked all fuses - all good. Swapped the black tachy relay by the ECU for another one - (this came off a later 1990s 1.6 btw) and now the fuel pump primes again, and you get a whiff of fuel when cranking so I assume fuel is good.

Checked for a spark from main HT lead - good. Sparks at the plugs leads only seem to be one every second or so - seems slow? Dizzy and rotor are less than a year <3000miles old. Leads are about 3 months old.

Things to mention - Yesterday I did the bottom engine mount and the metal water pipe. I did get the coil wet when re-filling the water, but drove about 5 miles since yesterday without hitch and started a few times also. It started twice today as I did a short journey this morning then another this afternoon before it died!

[Maccer 0]

I have just been out and tested an injector lead, lead to block and that registers about 10.5v, so I guess the injectors are getting the signal to fire. The distributor sensor wire also looks to be connected still.

I am really stumped on this one, I have a spark, and I assume fuel (pump primes and makes the right noises and injectors have current) but it refuses to fire! Any help would be great!

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

You may have just flooded it, crank it over with the injectors disconnected it may well briefly fire up then die. Then re-connect and it should be sorted if this is the problem.

Edited May 2, 2009 by j_turnell

[Maccer 0]

Just tried that, no joy. Didn't even attempt to fire. Think I will try the filter to rail fuel pipe into a bottle next just to make 100% sure I have fuel coming through. Any other ideas? I am pulling my hair out on this one!!

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

Check the dizzy fly lead, flap on the afm isn't stuck, ecu temp sensor connected ok along with afm, you only need fuel air spark and compression so unless its something serious shouldnt take too long to figure out.

[Maccer 0]

I checked the fuel was flowing by sticking the feed from the filter in a jar and cranking, and fuel definitely

Dizzy lead look like its still connected, to both the dizzy and the amp (I think this is the one you mean?) I will double check tomorrow.

AFM flap is fine, I had the hoses off when cranking it and the flap was free and moving and ECU temp sender definitely connected.

 

The only thing I have isolated as definitely broken is the relay. With the old relay connected the fuel pump doesn't prime, with the other one it does, however, looking closely they appear to be slightly different.

 

The original one is a Bosch unit, looks like this;

 

 

The spare I have is a Hella, off a newer car with a different ECU I think, and looks like this;

 

 

Although they look roughly the same and have the same pin pattern the upper left pin on the Bosch is labeled '1', on the Hella it is 'TD'

Could this be the problem? Do I need a Bosch relay?

[Alteran 1]

All the tachy relay does it receive a signal from the ignition amplifier, which in turn activates the fuel pump. So if you're getting a spark at the plugs and fuel at the injectors, the tachy relay, whether it's a different make or not, is doing it's job.

 

As previously mentioned, there are only a few things to take into consideration.. Spark, Air, Fuel and Compression. Additionally you can add Valve Timing. Is the timing belt still intact? Has it skipped a few teeth? I'd check the valve timing then take the plugs out and let the cylinders dry out. Maybe check compressions while they're out, however this is doubtful as you say you just turned the engine off.

 

Another thing maybe, is the spark strong enough? Maybe an ignition component has malfunctioned and you're only getting a reduced spark, amplifier maybe.

 

Liam

[Maccer 0]

Ok, thanks for the replies so far! The cambelt is only about 6 months old (this car has been costing me a fortune! lol) but yes it is still in one piece as the dissy rotor spins when you crank it. I guess a weak spark or a skipped belt / damaged dizzy wire are about all that's left. The battery was half flat by the time I got to changing the tachy yesterday so I left this on charge overnight - if this makes no difference today I will dry the cylinders out as you say, try a compression tester too then start looking for a new ignition amp/coil!

[philfingers 5]

Check the ECT, the blue engine coolant temperature sensor. Check the resitance against the attached chart. Check the plug, that the pins are in the right place, should have 5v on one side I think and ground to the other (anyone- correct me if i'm wrong)

ECT.pdf

[Maccer 0]

Got it fired up! Put the re-charged battery on, took out all the spark plugs which were all wet and let the pots dry out before putting it back together and she started first time. On the way back I stopped at a garage and it wouldn't start again! I turned it over a few times - nothing. Popped the bonnet and my mate went to wiggle one of the wires by the coil and it started again! (We're not sure if it fired before he touched it or after) When I got it back home I turned it off and then tried to start it again - didn't want to know. But it started without a hitch this morning. I am going to get all the contacts to the coil off and clean them all up - anything else that this could be symptomatic of?

[steve@cornwall 100]

Got it fired up! Put the re-charged battery on, took out all the spark plugs which were all wet and let the pots dry out before putting it back together and she started first time. On the way back I stopped at a garage and it wouldn't start again! I turned it over a few times - nothing. Popped the bonnet and my mate went to wiggle one of the wires by the coil and it started again! (We're not sure if it fired before he touched it or after) When I got it back home I turned it off and then tried to start it again - didn't want to know. But it started without a hitch this morning. I am going to get all the contacts to the coil off and clean them all up - anything else that this could be symptomatic of?

 

 

Go with Philfingers advice above, sounds like it's overfuelling and this sensor is a likely culprit.

[Maccer 0]

Cleaned up all the contacts on the coil and it seems to be working fine now. Took it for a good drive stopped it, and then fired it back up no problems.

Thanks to everyone for their replies!