Head Gasket

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

Hi there,

 

A few days ago I decided to do a service on the 1.9 8v as the K light was coming on. While changing the spark plugs I noticed that there was water in cylinders 2 and 3. I removed the head but there was no obvious track showing the gasket had gone. On closer inspection the card material between 2 and 3 had desintigrated but the metal rings seem to be intact. Could this let water in??

 

Also I'm aware that I can't desturb the crank as the liners will move and break the seals. How can i tell if the liner seals are ok? I'm not burning any oil, there is some emulsified oil in the breather pipes and also I'm getting crank case pressure I think with oil spraying out of the dip stick pipe?

 

HELP!

[Mark205 1]

When liner seals go they normally just mix oil with water which creates a mayo like substance.

 

Change the gasket now you now it is like it is.

 

Use the head bolts and some big washers to hold the liners in place when the head is off.

 

When the car was running did it sound like it had a heavy misfire as this would indicate water in the cylinders.

[welshpug 1,657]

the only way you can be certain that the liner seals are ok is by replacing them, if it wasn't loosing coolant into the sump you should be fine, but its becoming more often that they leak once the heads have been removed as these engines get older and older.

 

some crank case pressure is normal, the dipstick should be sealed in its tube so if it isn't you need a new one, this will help if you have any odd idling issues.

 

 

did you do a compression test or a cooling system pressure test before taking the head off?

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

the only way you can be certain that the liner seals are ok is by replacing them, if it wasn't loosing coolant into the sump you should be fine, but its becoming more often that they leak once the heads have been removed as these engines get older and older.

 

some crank case pressure is normal, the dipstick should be sealed in its tube so if it isn't you need a new one, this will help if you have any odd idling issues.

 

 

did you do a compression test or a cooling system pressure test before taking the head off?

 

 

Unfortunately I didn't do a test. There was water swilling around in the top of the pistons so i was sure of a leak, It seems like the water was seeping in slowly as the car would start awkwardly if started after a few minutes of being off but was fine from cold or very warm! (ie water hed drained or evaporated.). The head looks to be in good nick so i dont think the waters coming through a crack!

 

Are the liner seals hard to change? There seems little or no wear on the liners so don't think i need to change them or the piston rings! I guess I have to take the whole bottom end out as well do I? Getting the head off was a nightmare as the tension roller for the cambelt had a stripped head on the retaining bolt. The inside of the water jacket is quite orange from rusty water but I just don't know how far to go! I could do with it back on the road!

[sideways danny 0]

Liner seals means you have to drop the sump off, undo the big ends and pull out the pistons and liners. You don't NEED to pull the engine, but I think it would be worthwhile personally. You'll get the job done quicker and with less lying under a dripping engine.

[2-Pugs 57]

Hi there,

 

A few days ago I decided to do a service on the 1.9 8v as the K light was coming on. While changing the spark plugs I noticed that there was water in cylinders 2 and 3. I removed the head but there was no obvious track showing the gasket had gone. On closer inspection the card material between 2 and 3 had desintigrated but the metal rings seem to be intact. Could this let water in??

 

Also I'm aware that I can't desturb the crank as the liners will move and break the seals. How can i tell if the liner seals are ok? I'm not burning any oil, there is some emulsified oil in the breather pipes and also I'm getting crank case pressure I think with oil spraying out of the dip stick pipe?

 

HELP!

 

 

Unfortunately I didn't do a test. There was water swilling around in the top of the pistons so i was sure of a leak, It seems like the water was seeping in slowly as the car would start awkwardly if started after a few minutes of being off but was fine from cold or very warm! (ie water hed drained or evaporated.). The head looks to be in good nick so i dont think the waters coming through a crack!

 

Are the liner seals hard to change? There seems little or no wear on the liners so don't think i need to change them or the piston rings! I guess I have to take the whole bottom end out as well do I? Getting the head off was a nightmare as the tension roller for the cambelt had a stripped head on the retaining bolt. The inside of the water jacket is quite orange from rusty water but I just don't know how far to go! I could do with it back on the road!

 

 

Hey Martin

 

Don't know how far you have got with this job.

 

Anyway I would suggest that you leave the liners and seals well alone unless you know for certain that the seal has gone. Replacing them, as others have said is a big job.

 

Ideally you do need to hold the liners down when the head is off. I made some thick ally strips that went across the block to hold mine. In reality though, they have been there over 15 years, they're going to be stuck and are not going to move that easily.

 

It would be worth having the head skimmed now you have it off. At least then you know that it is flat and defect free. Rebuild it and see how you go before you do any more.

 

Once its all back together, run some coolant system flush through it to help clear the rusty crap out, otherwise a chunk might find its way round to the radiator and block it.

 

Good luck

Rob

Edited May 9, 2009 by 2-Pugs

[lagonda 42]

I had trouble with mine indicating head gasket failure, but compression tests always even & good. Eventually the gasket blew in a major way, having burst 3 hoses first (my car does nothing by halves). So...it was head gasket all along?.....No....after spending ages cleaning the head up for skimming...took it to machiners, who promptly spotted cracks....obvious once pointed out! They were between the spark plug orifice & exhaust valve seat on both middle cylinders. So...what had been happening was the crack was only opening under certain conditions...and of course, not when I was doing a compression test. So I'd certainly re-check for cracks.

As far as replacing your liner seals....they WON'T be the reason for water in the combustion chamber. Unfortunately I was delayed stripping mine down, & the water had rusted my liners....one so badly it needed replacing. So I'd certainly (once you've bolted / clamped the liners down (they actually needed quite heavy taps to loosen them so probably not necessary, but why take a chance?)) turn the crank over & look carefully at the bores to see if they're OK. I had to remove my liners.. but it did give the opportunity of clearing out any collected crap in the water ways.....only there wasn't any! Had to assume it was all blasted out when the hoses burst!

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

Thanks guys for all your help as usual.

 

In the end on close inspection, the head gasket had gone between 2 and 3 leaking water into both slowly. I took the head in to a local engineers and was going to just skim for £25 but in the end spent £120 but had all the valve seals replaced, the head dipped clean and all the shims set up. Good gob I did as he said all the shims had been mixed up. It was a little rattley, specially when cold. The timing was quite a way out as the dowels weren't lined up so I reset that. Anyway all back together now and it starts. Only ran it for 5 seconds as the cooling system isn't back in but sounded fine!

 

Thankfully the head bolts didn't snap which is a major relief after 2-pugs nightmares.