Just Wondering Why My 155 Bhp 1.9 8v Isnt Very Fast Top End

[Roman 0]

YOU LOT CAN SAY WHAT YOU LIKE I NO MY CAR IS QUICK AND ALL BEEN DONE PROPERLY. IT WAS 140 BHP BEFORE I HAD THE CHIP FITTED AND PUT THE K&N ELEMENT FILTER IT IS PRETY MUCH A NEW ENGINE SO WHY WOULDNT IT BE THAT FAST ......??????

i must say that you shure have one of few limited edition 8v vith 140hp from factory

[GLPoomobile 958]

I have now taken the time to go back and re-read all your comments.

 

You say it's 155BHP on the rollers

It'll hit the limiter at 124mph (taking speedo innaccuracy in to consideration, seems about right)

Seems a bit flat after 100mph

Keeps getting beating after 100mph on the drag strip

 

Even if - and I'll accentuate that just to ram home the point - even IF you could hit 100mph in the 1/4 with your current spec (unlikely), that sort of speed would be arriving right at the end of the run, so if other cars are beating you, they aren't doing it while you are at over 100mph. You'd have to be hitting 100mph some way before the finish, and stop accelerating (which you are alluding to - the fact that your engine isn't pulling hard enough above 100), for a competitor to then come past and beat you. Like Chewbacca, it does not make sense.

 

So come on, what the real story here? I've taken the time to read your topic, just as others have, and I've raised these comments not to make you look silly or a liar, but to try and get to the bottom of what you are on about. Now I've taken the time, perhaps you could do the same and come back with some proper answers, properly written (without CAPS LOCK). Ideally a reply that takes more than a minute to rattle off. If you can't do that, then you are just wasting the forum's time

Edited May 1, 2009 by GLPoomobile

[large 33]

Perhaps if you could communicate your thoughts properly, it'd help your case. This topic has been bloody cryptic right from the beginning, and we are all having trouble understanding what you are actually trying to get to the bottom of!

 

As stated, with the list of mods you have, you won't be seeing 155bhp. I'd eat my hat if you did, and if you did, then your engine has more done to it than you are telling us. The 1.9 8v never made the claimed 130 bhp off the production line (I think it was actually officially 128bhp to be totally anal about it, but they apparently rarely made that much either). Now if you go off and do some research, you'll read time and again lots of very knowledeagble and experienced people telling how you will not see big gains on these engines from chipping, filters or exhausts. So I'm telling you - and that may be very forthright, but I'd eat my hat, as I said already, if I was wrong - that your engine was not producing 140bhp before you added your wonderful chip and filter. And it's not 155bhp now either, rebuilt engine or not. If you belive that, somebody (enginer builder, rolling road operator, maybe both) is signing you a song and taking you for a mug.

 

The other mystery of course is why the heck it's been built with forged pistons when the rest of the spec seems fairly standard. Has the compression been significantly increased, and if it has, what else has been done to make it work (or maximise the potential) with this upped compression? Or was it simply done as the start of future plans? i.e. is there a plan to supercharge/turbocharge it in the future, hence why forged pistons where specified?

 

Now, once you have accepted that your engine is not producing 155bhp, you need to tell us how it is performing and we'll see if there's actually a problem here or if you simply have expectations that are never going to be met. Are you quantifying the behaviour of the car by what is happening on the drag strip or on the rolling road? Without re-reading the earlier posts I can't remember what you said, and think some other members may have taken you out of context and confused things.

 

Come back with some proper answers that are sensibly worded and maybe we can help you.

 

 

Boobs .

TBH I think the car is driven on the road and the speeds talked about are not over 1/4 mile.

mosleygtiminter: The people on here DO want to help! Dont take things to hart.

In the past I have fitted a chip,air filter and exhorst to a GTi6 engine and seen a 9bhp increase on the book value. That was on a knowen optimistic RR. So with your lower starting point you may only get 5-6bhp gain.

[Craigb 2]

chip and K&N does not make 155bhp 16 valves or a cam and throttle bodies do mind you.

 

Or a cam, a lot of head work , full management , a serious exhaust , increased CR and a std plenum.

 

 

I always thought my previous std 1.9's "felt " flat at the top end when compared to to my std 1.6 used to , i never had either on RR though to compare.

 

As a comparriosn , it may be as well trying to get hold of a performance meter , to get some real measuremnts of speed and acceleration . I use my race technology one regularly for comparissons.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

All this talk of getting beaten over 100mph on the quarter mile is bollocks. In the mini on a good run I can do somewhere between 90 and 93mph over the 1/8th mile, on to a best ever of 121mph over the quarter. This is a 460kg car with a 220bhp engine which has run plus or minus 10bhp to this figure on three different rolling roads, plus 25bhp of gas.

 

I don't have time to look at gauges between the 1/8th and the 1/4 mile, it is over in 3.5 ish seconds, let alone time to look where another car is, or for it to noticeably "come past".

 

155bhp (supposedly) 8v 205, weighing something like 850kg?? Forget it.

[Gibbo GTI 0]

@ Mosleygtiminter - whats your 60 foot time, terminal speed and 1/4 mile time down the drag strip?

[AJPMIKE 0]

It has polished and ported head/ lightend and balanced crank and flywheel/ all new internals new standard cam , omega forged pistons / full stainless exhaust /mi16 sump uprated oil pump/ fse valve / BBR GTI Star chip / K&N Element Filter / all set up and running Really well hamers civic Type R's off the mark . And hits just under the limiter at 124 flat out but There is unbeliveable tourqe in any gear but just doesnt pull the best after 100 any ideas i have read the puma forum and studdied it well can any 1 tell me more please thanks for all your replies .

taking out the actual bhp figures for a moment(as someone else has pointed out,these can vary a bit between rollers )it could be that your cam timing is swung the wrong way?By what you describe it would seem that you have a lot of bottom and mid-range guts,and you cant have it all-ie bottom middle and top in huge quantaties,something always has to be sacrificed in cam choice to an extent .

Might be worth double checking and experimenting with cam timing-just a small swing can make a hell of a difference.

[Guest mosleygtiminter]

taking out the actual bhp figures for a moment(as someone else has pointed out,these can vary a bit between rollers )it could be that your cam timing is swung the wrong way?By what you describe it would seem that you have a lot of bottom and mid-range guts,and you cant have it all-ie bottom middle and top in huge quantaties,something always has to be sacrificed in cam choice to an extent .

Might be worth double checking and experimenting with cam timing-just a small swing can make a hell of a difference.

 

 

i have ajusted the timing . beacause it was pinking when i kept at a sertain constant time . we all do a quater mile up hill straight line and get that speed

[lfallgti 12]

we all do a quater mile up hill straight line and get that speed

 

please stop wasting our time

[taylorspug 7]

please stop wasting our time

 

Quite.

 

No wonder the bloody thing is struggling over a ton going up hill!

[lfallgti 12]

Quite.

 

No wonder the bloody thing is struggling over a ton going up hill!

 

 

i would imagine the boot full of speakers,subs and amps dont help

[rubyna 4 1 Cars]

So there is no drag strip with proper timed runs, i can give you a good bit of advice try www.p.g.a.c.com they,ll sort you out!!

Luke..

[lfallgti 12]

lol

[DamirGTI 342]

...160bhp mark is possible from 8v unit (as proven by race engine builder Mr. Guy Croft ..) but with s*it load of head work (which isn't really an easy job on this type of head ! .. especially not on DIY basis) , throttle bodies , race cam , fully mappable ignition/fueling , lightened an balanced bottom end and god knows what else anyway all this job was @ ?!?.000$

 

All of us from over here know very good how far you'll get with the cone air filter and big bore exhaust , that's 100% crap performance item selection let alone forged pistons (i'm on 11.1 CR on my engine with std. pistons without any odd issues) i really do not see the point for using them in such state of tune ?!

 

Me thinks that you've been on some very optimistic rollers (i always take this rolling road power runs with a pinch of salt as they're "adjustable" so , if you kindly ask rolling road operator you can leave the workshop with the 200bhp doc in your hand ) ... be proud with the car as it is , buy an nice shampoo tide it up and forget about the rolling road paperwork .

 

Damir

Edited May 8, 2009 by DamirGTI

[GLPoomobile 958]

i have ajusted the timing . beacause it was pinking when i kept at a sertain constant time . we all do a quater mile up hill straight line and get that speed

 

Sounds like your 205 has had the clocks swapped with some Euro dials. That'll be over 100kph you're doing, not 100mph

 

In the absence of the facts, or a proper reply as I asked for earlier, I'll read between the lines. I'm going to agree with what someone summised earlier - you are racing on the public road. This explains why you are getting to over 100mph (because it's not a proper 1/4 mile, it's what you and your mates are guessing is a 1/4 mile, and will infact be much further), and it explains why you are getting beaten above this speed by the likes of Civic Type Rs (again, I'm assuming this is the case since you used them as the example when you said you could beat them off the line).

 

I'll also make another assumption - that all of your rolling road results have come from the same place, and that it was the place that also did your engine work. How convenient that they were able to massage the results

 

I'm still lost as to what your original query was all about

 

Is the old paper mill still operating in Tiverton? Reckon those manky fumes might be getting to your head

Edited May 9, 2009 by GLPoomobile

[Guest mosleygtiminter]

Sounds like your 205 has had the clocks swapped with some Euro dials. That'll be over 100kph you're doing, not 100mph

 

In the absence of the facts, or a proper reply as I asked for earlier, I'll read between the lines. I'm going to agree with what someone summised earlier - you are racing on the public road. This explains why you are getting to over 100mph (because it's not a proper 1/4 mile, it's what you and your mates are guessing is a 1/4 mile, and will infact be much further), and it explains why you are getting beaten above this speed by the likes of Civic Type Rs (again, I'm assuming this is the case since you used them as the example when you said you could beat them off the line).

 

I'll also make another assumption - that all of your rolling road results have come from the same place, and that it was the place that also did your engine work. How convenient that they were able to massage the results

 

I'm still lost as to what your original query was all about

 

Is the old paper mill still operating in Tiverton? Reckon those manky fumes might be getting to your head

 

 

how did you no that i worked there it was at steve edmands and it was just to see why my car was rapid upto 100 and what is the timing got to be as standard . and the engine was done at peugeot talbot sport in coventry the so called work was done be for i got the car . i just done the exhaust and filter and chip and it was 140 at the fly the chip is supposed to add 10 + 15 bhp and the same in torque

[GLPoomobile 958]

i just done the exhaust and filter and chip and it was 140 at the fly the chip is supposed to add 10 + 15 bhp and the same in torque

 

Yeah, and you can buy cheap resistors from eBay that are supposed to fool your ECU in to providing more fuel, which they claim will give you more BHP. Don't believe everything you read!

 

A decent rolling road tune should reveal if there's any problems with your fuelling (which there might be, thanks to that bloody chip!). If they are any good, they'll see straight away from the power and torque plot if there genuinely is a problem with your set up, and should be able to advise if it is fuelling related, igntion timing or cam timing etc. But treat it as a diagnosis session only, take any power claims on the day with a pinch of salt.

 

It may turn out that there is actually nothing wrong with your 205. It's entirely possible that it's a perfectly healthy setup (albeit not producing as much power as you have convinced yourself it is) and is behaving as it should do. Have you compared it to another 1.9 8v?

[timb1046 1]

my 1.9 always seemed to lack after 100ish (on my private road officer) but i just put it down to aero dynamics, it would still pull well and be faster than alot of things after that speed but just not seem to have the same guts it did the rest of the time, i think that its a normal setup you have and a perfectly normal "problem" of timing giving you low down power and less high range power

 

Tim

[jord294 92]

my 309 gti has a skip brown 'rs' conversion and pulls 155bhp @ flywheel and 134bhp @ wheels

 

it runs on std injection, and super unleaded

 

i run a 4.4:1 cwp.

 

acceleration is truly amazing, but top end does suffer slightly

 

am i bovvered?! am i buggery

[bales 1]

how did you no that i worked there it was at steve edmands and it was just to see why my car was rapid upto 100 and what is the timing got to be as standard . and the engine was done at peugeot talbot sport in coventry the so called work was done be for i got the car . i just done the exhaust and filter and chip and it was 140 at the fly the chip is supposed to add 10 + 15 bhp and the same in torque

 

Ah the good old exhaust, filter and chip, the proven way to erm....not gain very much at all....unless you have a modern turbo car

 

If I had a tenner for every corsa/saxo/clio owner who has had an exhaust, filter and chip on a (normally 1.2) that now has 25bhp more than standard I would be very rich!

[GLPoomobile 958]

Ah the good old exhaust, filter and chip, the proven way to erm....not gain very much at all....unless you have a modern turbo car

 

If I had a tenner for every corsa/saxo/clio owner who has had an exhaust, filter and chip on a (normally 1.2) that now has 25bhp more than standard I would be very rich!

 

Healthy 1.9 8v = 130bhp

4 branch manifold = +10bhp

Stainless steel big bore system = +5bhp

Induction filter = +5bhp

FSE Power boost valve = +5bhp

Splitfire plugs and leads = +2bhp

Superchips = +10bhp

Total = 167bhp - why bother with an expensive GTI6 conversion when the bolt on approach is so much cheaper and easier? And that's using conservative power increase guesses, and I didn't even factor in the Ebay Resistor Mod Of Power, good for another 20bhp!

[Guest mosleygtiminter]

Healthy 1.9 8v = 130bhp

4 branch manifold = +10bhp

Stainless steel big bore system = +5bhp

Induction filter = +5bhp

FSE Power boost valve = +5bhp

Splitfire plugs and leads = +2bhp

Superchips = +10bhp

Total = 167bhp - why bother with an expensive GTI6 conversion when the bolt on approach is so much cheaper and easier? And that's using conservative power increase guesses, and I didn't even factor in the Ebay Resistor Mod Of Power, good for another 20bhp!

 

 

 

I have had a 205 mi 16v it was running 182 at the fly aparently and my car is equaly as torqey . but the mi did about 20 - 25 to the gallon but mine does a good 35 easily . i just want to no if i change the gearbox back to the 1.9 and the chip is a star chip bbr gti starchip and noticed alot of difrence. it cost me 299 +vat is there any 1 near tiverton that would have a look at my car for abit of friendly advice

[jimistdt 1]

Have you ever come across an expression 'pissing in the wind?', thats whats happening here.

 

 

 

So now your cars as much torque as an Mi16? Sound like you've got a good one

[Guest mosleygtiminter]

my 309 gti has a skip brown 'rs' conversion and pulls 155bhp @ flywheel and 134bhp @ wheels

 

it runs on std injection, and super unleaded

 

i run a 4.4:1 cwp.

 

acceleration is truly amazing, but top end does suffer slightly

 

am i bovvered?! am i buggery

 

 

hi mate what have you done to yours to get that power and are you running a 1.6 box

[Guest mosleygtiminter]

Have you ever come across an expression 'pissing in the wind?', thats whats happening here.

 

 

 

So now your cars as much torque as an Mi16? Sound like you've got a good one

 

 

yes i have but im just saying that it feels very simular but its not about reving its all low down revs and grunt or is that cause im running a 1.6 box