Pants Handling

[RossD 44]

Got a bit of an issue currently with the 205. Turning into fast corners and it feels a bit wishy washy, almost as if the wheels are taking a while to respond.

For example, coming along a dual carriageway, braking for roundabout, turn into roundabout, it feels like it's understeering for a bit before suddenly the wheels bite and round she goes. Steering really weights up in the corners, but then I am used to a wussy PAS car so can live with that!

 

Suspension is all new, rear axle in full working order (Totally rebuilt). The tracking has been setup using a Trackrite and so is pretty much ok. The rear height is a little high at the moment (Dummy shock set to ~328mm when building axle).

 

Front spec: Bilstein challenge spec dampers with Eibach 7001 springs. Polybushed 205 wishbones.

Rear: 19mm TB's and ARB. Challenge spec Bilstein dampers.

 

Wheels are the 106 S2 Rallye steels with Kumho Ecsta tyres. (185/55R14)

 

Any ideas? At the moment my Xsara HDi 'feels' better than this on turn in! Only thing that comes to mind is the tyres are only 1000miles old and this is 'tread shuffle' or something.

 

Cheers

 

Ross

Edited April 15, 2009 by RossD

[James_R 3]

Is the car tracked parallel or with a slight bit of toe in? And do you have a De-PAS rack on it or just a standard on?

 

If anything the back being slightly high woudl aid the turn in to the car, not make it worse, the only thing to suggest otherwise is try a slightly bigger rear ARB to help the turn in be a bit sharp, around a 22mm item.

 

James

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

steering rack? but id say could be tyres as khumos are a budgety brand,they may get better as they wear though.

or it could just be a case of your used to the modern car response,as im the opposite! i have a modern car and cant get used to it as its no wjere near as sharp as my pug.just a case of adjusting to driving your pug.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

I wouldn't say kumho's are budget, some of their new tyres are pretty good, specially the motorsport and offroad orientated ones.

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

I wouldn't say kumho's are budget, some of their new tyres are pretty good, specially the motorsport and offroad orientated ones.

 

the khumo ecstas are,i bought some 14" ones for £20 each before.they were classed as budgets in the garage i worked.

[RossD 44]

The tyres are Kumho Ecsta KU31's, seem to have plenty of grip, it's just the initial turn in. Reviews seem pretty positive for these tyres too. On the limit handling is mostly neutral, have yet to summon the courage to try any lift off oversteer.

It's tracked pretty much parallel, what sort of alignment would give best turn in then? I've heard toe-in for stability, parallel and slight toe out for response.

 

I wouldnt have thought a diesel Xsara with 104k on the clocks was going to feel better than a stiff, low 205, hence the query here

 

Cheers

 

Ross

Edited April 15, 2009 by RossD

[jimistdt 1]

I know you've said you have all new suspension, have you checked for play in the front wheels. What you described about the lack of turn in then suddenly loads is what I was experiencing with the ovalled hub, although it was the N/S hub and only felt it on right hand corners.

 

Or maybe the wishbone is failed?

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

Dont mean to be patronising but have you checked the tyre pressures? Its easy to overlook the simple stuff

[RossD 44]

I checked the pressures a couple of weeks ago, but will check again. Not patronising, tis a good point! Steering rack is standard non-PAS rack with new track rods and track rod ends.

Hubs were fine when I last checked, will look again this weekend. No play whatsoever in front wheels, that is something I did check!! Wishbones are fine too.

 

What are people setting their tyre pressures to, standard pug recommendation or something different?

 

Thanks all

 

Ross

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

I checked the pressures a couple of weeks ago, but will check again. Not patronising, tis a good point! Steering rack is standard non-PAS rack with new track rods and track rod ends.

Hubs were fine when I last checked, will look again this weekend. No play whatsoever in front wheels, that is something I did check!! Wishbones are fine too.

 

What are people setting their tyre pressures to, standard pug recommendation or something different?

 

Thanks all

 

Ross

 

i usuallly put in 28psi front and rear, but thats with 195 45 15 tyres.

i tried a few pressures and 28 just seemed right somehow.

[RossD 44]

Thanks, I'll try playing around with the tyre pressures at the weekend, see if it yields any results.

 

BensonMi, I see you're near Camarthen, spent all of last week in that area, you've got some fantastic roads are stupidly low traffic levels around there, wish it was like that here!!

 

Cheers

 

Ross

[Anthony 1,002]

Does it have the same lack of turn-in on both left and right hand bends, or is it mainly on right-handers (e.g roundabouts)?

[swordfish210 20]

Top mounts? I found the turn in a lot better when i got some Grp N ones from BBM. One of the best handling modifications i made to my car was to fit a Quaife quick rack. It was so much easier to chuck the car in to a corner and it was easier to control in the fast corners, it is a bitch to park though

[James_R 3]

I run my car parallel or 1mm toe out and it's pretty respsonsive then, although not nice for a comfy motorway cruise lol.

 

pressure's I've settled on 33/30 front back on 195/50's (much low on semi's though)

 

I's say if it's lower at the front and the rear isn't stiffened that's where the dead turn in will have come from.

[RossD 44]

Yep, both left and right corners on turn in. The rear does need lowering, so I may do that soon, I'll also look into some uprated TB's or an ARB sometime soon.

Yes, already got new top mounts and Gp N top rubbers. It's also using an OMP Strutbrace.

 

Thanks for all the help people, got plenty of things to start looking at now.

[damien 22 1 Cars]

my money is on a duff steering rack, mine does very much the same thing kind of a delay when turning left/right

[RossD 44]

I can't find any play anywhere in the rack though... Any ideas on how to check a steering rack properly?

 

Cheers

 

Ross

[M@tt 77]

you ideally want an assistant

 

jack the car up

remove the wheels

get them to hold the hub stationary whilst you gently turn the wheel bacak and forth a small amount.

there should be no left or right roational movement without the rack/hub moving. If there is it would indicate that the rack is worn.

 

i had a worn steering column U/J on mine as one of the plastic bushes in the UJ knuckle had fallen apart so the wheel could be rotated a little in either direction without it affecting the wheels. I replaced the UJ and it felt 10 times better.

[taylorspug 7]

I run my car parallel or 1mm toe out and it's pretty respsonsive then, although not nice for a comfy motorway cruise lol.

 

pressure's I've settled on 33/30 front back on 195/50's (much low on semi's though)

 

I's say if it's lower at the front and the rear isn't stiffened that's where the dead turn in will have come from.

 

Interesting pressures James, what tyres are you running? I find my car has alot more feel and turn in with a lower front pressure, usually around 28psi. Run the rears at about 32.

[munster 0]

Where could i pick up a UJ? Is that something a motor factors would have?

[swordfish210 20]

Interesting pressures James, what tyres are you running? I find my car has alot more feel and turn in with a lower front pressure, usually around 28psi. Run the rears at about 32.

 

Yeah i run about the same pressures as that, i find it much better as the rears heat up quicker.

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

BensonMi, I see you're near Camarthen, spent all of last week in that area, you've got some fantastic roads are stupidly low traffic levels around there, wish it was like that here!!

 

Cheers

 

Ross

 

im glad you enjoyed! it is good round this way,empty windey scenic roads,and burnt out speed cameras

[grandos 16]

Another bet on the rack being faulty here.

 

I had a rack go similar to this, basically it was worn around straight ahead. (loads of motorway miles) but perfect after the initial turn in.

 

Another symtom was that it would follow the track of the road really easily. (lorry tracks in the inside lane)

[gti-si 0]

I've jus had the rack changed on my Galant after the seal finally gave way. I can't quite hit the nail on the head aas to whats wrong with the hadling but it's not right. I'd say your problem is pretty similar and the car follows road track very easily, especially when slowing down, as soon as im at about 7-10mph a truck track can whip the steering wheel right round, very annoying considering the job cost over £800

[James_R 3]

I run them a bit harder on the front on the road to make up for them not running hot, otherwise I find the sidewall movement kills the initial turn in. Tyres have been parada's, 912's and now PE2's, on then track aim for 30psi hot. But I'm not sure how the PE2's would hold up so have a set of 048's for that