Ma Gearbox- Quaife Gearkit

[205Rallee 59]

Well I'm onto my 5th gearbox rebuild in 5 years. Approximately 7 sprints a year and 2,000 miles always kills the synchros in my MA5S box with quaife close ratio gear kit on the TU24 engine. It's usually 2nd and 3rd gear synchro rings that are worn. The engine is probably a genuine 120bhp at the flywheel. I'm using a std clutch rather than the Alcon paddle one I used to use and I use Silkolene Pro SRG oil as recommended by Quaife and bloomin expensive it is.

 

I'm about to strip it down for another rebuild. Can you do anything with the standard synchro rings to make them last longer, heat treatment or anything like that? Just bored with having to take it to pieces every year

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Use the oil peugeot recommend for a start... 75w80 BV transmission from total.

 

Cant say much for the MA gearbox's all a bunch of s*it really. Get a BE4 on there.

Edited March 30, 2009 by EdCherry

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Use the oil peugeot recommend for a start... 75w80 BV transmission from total.

 

And you know better than Quaife?? The standard oil is good for a standard gearbox. Depending on the material on the synchro cones of the Quaife gearkit there could be very good reasons they recommend the oil that they do.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Maybe Quaife do know better than me, but MA box's hate anything but that oil, and anything to make it a gearbox rather than stirring poridge is a good thing.

 

Anyway just a suggestion really.

Edited March 30, 2009 by EdCherry

[Rippthrough 98]

Maybe Quaife do know better than me, but MA box's hate anything but that oil, and anything to make it a gearbox rather than stirring poridge is a good thing.

 

Anyway just a suggestion really.

 

Hah, a decent nick MA has a better change than the BE Ed, back to college mister.

 

They just have a habit of blowing up.

 

It's the synchro's that like the peugeot oil, so giving he's running a quaife gearset I'd go with what they recommend, eh?

Edited March 30, 2009 by Rippthrough

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Maybe Quaife do know better than me, but MA box's hate anything but that oil, and anything to make it a gearbox rather than stirring poridge is a good thing.

 

Anyway just a suggestion really.

 

Well here is a suggestion for you- unless you have first hand experience of whatever it is, keep quiet?

I have built gearboxes with Quaife kits in so feel very partially qualified to comment, note I'm not claiming to know all there is to know about gearbox oil and Quaife gearkits, but just a sweeping statement that standard oil is better than what Quaife themselves recommend is just plain naive. I understand the reasons why a Peugeot gearbox is nasty to use if you put the wrong grade oil in it, do you?

[drmo 5]

My experience with oil that peugeot recomends is that if you drive your car carefully the oil is great. When cold it shifts good. But if you push your car a little more harder or hard the oil is total crap. My best results are with Motul 90PA gearbox oil. It is hard to drive when the oil is cold becose the oil is really thick, but in two years I didn't have any problems with my current gearbox. In the first box i used esso 75w80 as peugeot recomended and when the oil got hot the sincros started to fail in time.

[swordfish210 20]

Interesting topic. I've had the same gearbox (AX GTI) in my car now for about 30 months and it's done about 20,000 miles of fairly hard driving in my car and it had done 100,000+ miles in it's original home, and a few trackdays and it's completly fine. I've allways used some 75w80 oil in it that i get from the local motorfactors (it says "Recomended for Peugeot gearbox's on the back ) However i'm not using a Quaife gearset and i'm not using a LSD so i guess my oil/MA box related experience doesnt matter a great deal here.

 

Ed: i keep telling you theres nothing wrong with MA gearbox's, it's just your ham fisted gearchanging

 

On a side note, i was thinking about fitting a different differental to the box, probably a Tran-X plate diff. Any advice on these; oil, fitting, service life?

 

Thanks. Mark

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Well here is a suggestion for you- unless you have first hand experience of whatever it is, keep quiet?

 

Ever since I made that comment on PSOOC about not doing things your way, you've been off with me, what is your problem? Yes maybe I am wrong but you dont always have to come in with a stick and starting beating me down.

 

Mark - It isn't my ham fisted gearchange, every MA box'd engine ive driven has been a bit 'notchy', might be different with yours, just coming from personal experience.

 

Also reading back I totally misread the topic so yes I was completely wrong.

Edited March 31, 2009 by EdCherry

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Been off with you? If you say so. All I'd suggest, as I suggest above, is you stick to discussing things you have first hand experience or knowledge of, or otherwise keep quiet, spreading mis-information doesn't help anyone.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Ok. Why does a peugeot gearbox feel nasty with the wrong grade oil in?

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Because the tolerances between synchro cone and hub are designed with the oil grade in mind, these are very close tolerances and rely on viscous drag from the gearbox oil to synchronise speeds between gear and selector hub, and hence allow the synchromesh to work. If you use the wrong grade of oil, it will mean the synchro does not function as intended, giving a notchy change. The most common error is using normal 80W90 gearbox oil in a Peugeot gearbox, which makes it very difficult to engage gears on a cold morning. Once the oil has warmed up and thinned then it is not as bad as it gets closer to the original design envelope. This is all well and good for standard stuff. However the Quaife box and its synchro rings may or may not either be different tolerance to original, or another possibility is that they are sprayed with another metal to the steel gear cones (molybdenum sometimes) for wear reasons, either of these may well give rise to the manufacturer recommending another gearbox oil, either for the viscous properties, or for some additive or another to work with the coating on the synchro cone.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Well you learn something new every day. Thanks for explaining it.

[205Rallee 59]

Sorry to start an argument!

 

The original gearbox lasted 160,000kms and about 100 sprints and only needed attention because the plastic tips on the selector forks dissolved. It's now the original casing with the quaife gearkit, bronze gear selector forks and an AP Suretrac dif.

 

The synchros rings are standard and I'd imagine the bits of the gears they grip are to the standard dimensions. I only use the Silkolene as this is the oil they recommend on the web site, but it doesn't specify this is for the Pug gear kit, they recommend it for everything. So maybe I'd be better off with the standard Peugeot MA oil. It's got to be worth a try as the Silkolene isn't working. And yes I'm really gentle with the box and no it's never blown up!

[joe1joe 3]

explained very fancy! i was gona explain but wudnt sound as good as that!

another thing to note i thin to help prevent syncro wear is heel/toe on dwn shifts, beter u are the less ur syncros are gona wear?? corect me if im wrong?

 

and yes that does look like a 5 year old typed that!

[Sam 4]

I ran one of these and after a fair few miles it managed to drop 5th (I think there was a problem with the selector fork) and 1st to 2nd always crunched. It sounded good though and was a REALLY nice improvement to the car. Shame about the 110 top speed though. I ran about 155bhp through it from an 8v on TBs and headwork/cam. I miss it!

Edited April 4, 2009 by Sam

[burr_2000 1]

so does anyone know what the correct gearbox oil is for a MA box with a quaiffe? i am a bit concerned now because i have just been running mine with the Peugeot recomended oil.

[Sam 4]

I ran the same I beleive, I think I got some millers though. 75/80 from memory?

[Ajr 0]

Quaife recommend 75w90 for use with their diffs on an otherwise standard MA, but i chose to use 75w80, usually the total stuff! Only had one MA fail, and that was input shaft bearings on 70k, inc lots of abuse and track time. I wear the 3rd gear synchros within a year or so of replacing, they are generally just not a great design, but replacing every two years is OK in my books on a track car. It seems to be more pronounced on higher revving cars, mine goes to 8.5k+ so that can't help. I find being more liberal with my changes from 2nd to 3rd allows it to slot in easily without crunching too. So simply changing gear ever so slightly slower might be the difference between one season and 4 before your synchros are worn.

[205Rallee 59]

Well I've drained out the silkolene and put the Total stuff from the dealer. Will let you know what it's like, bets are that the synchro rings are wrecked now anyway. Can you believe the pug dealer had none in stock! no wonder no one buys Peugeots these days. I got mine from a Citroen dealer, was looking forward to 0% finance and £2,000 cashback but they offered no incentives!

[welshpug 1,661]

they will have some in stock, just not in 1L containers...

[205Rallee 59]

The Total oil has improved the gear change quaility, it now only crunches into second a wee bit. Hopefully it will last the season and then it can have a rebuild and this time I'll use the Total oil to see how long it lasts.

[Nick C 0]

How did you get on with this?

 

 

Cheers

 

Nick

[mxcrazy 0]

Why not drop the money onto a dog engagement gear kit, sell the synchro kit to someone thats not going to be hammering it and bite the bullet for the dog kit, it will outlast the synchros many times over.

[dcc 855]

Whats the cost on a quaife MA close gear kit?