Xu9 J2 (306 Xsi 2 Litre 8 Valve) Engine Into 205

[Atari Boy 11]

I have found a decent 77,000 mile 2 litre 8 valve XU9 J2 lump to replace my knackered 1.9 8 valve lump.

 

Has anyone got any experience of putting it a 205?

 

I have done a search but could not find anything for this engine.

Can I use my 1.9 management and loom if I put this into my 205? Will it go straight in?

I know that it is slightly down on power over a 1.9 8v but only by 5 bhp. I figure that the upside will be a newer engine and better reliability, after all my knackered 1.9 lump only make 106 before it started knocking.

 

Any tips, comments or advise would be really appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Jonny

[Anthony 1,003]

You haven't looked very hard, as there's an active topic today about it!

 

You need to swap the inlet manifold, cam cover, thermostat housing and dizzy across from your old engine, and then you can run it on the original 8v management. Personally I'd swap over the GTi cam as well, and reshape the ports to match the manifold (roundish ports, squarish manifold).

 

Running a GTi cam and on GTi management, and obviously without the CAT from the 306, it should have atleast the same power (if not more) and a bit more torque than a 1.9 GTi engine thanks to the increased capacity and the better flowing head.

 

2.0 8v XSi engine is XU10J2 btw

[M@tt 77]

Should be pretty straightforward but i'd use the proper management if i were you. It's not going to fuel corrctly if your running 1.9 fuel map on a 2.0 engine. I'd hazard a guess that it'd be running lean because it would be supplying less fuel than required for the capacity, lean is bad and makes things go pop

 

wiring would be pretty straight forward just need to connect a few essential wires up and away you go, depending on which management it's runnign you might need to ensure its been removed properly so that the ECU is unlocked

[BackStreetRacecars 3]

as above I have pretty much the same engine in one of my 205s! although mine is overbored too.... Good torquey motor... Runs fine on standard management too... Go for it!!!

[Atari Boy 11]

You haven't looked very hard, as there's an active topic today about it!

Sorry, I did look, or I thought I had, probably ‘a man’s look’ as my wife calls it.

 

Thanks for the info.

[Anthony 1,003]

It's not going to fuel corrctly if your running 1.9 fuel map on a 2.0 engine. I'd hazard a guess that it'd be running lean because it would be supplying less fuel than required for the capacity, lean is bad and makes things go pop

2.0 8v fuels fine on 1.9 management as fuelling is controlled by an AFM which, as the name suggests measures air flow, and hence extra airflow means extra fuel. Same way that you can quite happily run a 1.9 8v on 1.6 ECU/AFM/injectors, despite many claiming that should explode and kill kittens or some such nonsense...

[MrG 3]

so Jonny whats next? where did this lump come from? (or have you bought an unsuspecting XSi to dismantle?)

 

this is the topic that Anthony refers to I think>>> 306 into 205

Edited March 17, 2009 by MrG

[M@tt 77]

ah i stand corrected my mistake, cheers anthony

[Atari Boy 11]

so Jonny whats next? where did this lump come from? (or have you bought an unsuspecting XSi to dismantle?)

 

this is the topic that Anthony refers to I think>>> 306 into 205

 

 

Thank Andrew I did find it after a proper look, using the correct engine code made a big difference.

I know a man who knows a man with an XSi, the loom is knackered so I can get the engine for a decent price.

I have that 5 door sub frame for you btw.

[MrG 3]

ah yes, I'll pm you now.

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

Like Anthony has hinted, you need to be sure what engine you are talking about.

 

XU9J2C is 1905cc alloy block ~125bhp engine & a 2.0l is an XU10 iron block one. Depending on which engine it is, some already run on similar jetronic managment but most will be on later styles of management with or without a cat.

 

Both have similar power & torque, dislike for revving much past 5k (even more than the 1.9 GTi engine in many cases).

 

As already mentioned though there is a healthy sdopunding 1.9 8v GTI engine for sale on here in Derby thats a straight fit swap for yours.

 

Graham.

[MrG 3]

I think the 1.9 8v in Derby is the one to go for personally, however getting it from there to yours could be an issue?

[Atari Boy 11]

I think the 1.9 8v in Derby is the one to go for personally, however getting it from there to yours could be an issue?

 

I know where you are comming from but the chap selling it has been really straight and it is tappy when up to temp and in Derby so less attractive but let's see what happens. Nothing is fixed yet although I am indeed leaning towards the 2 litre.

[Carl Chambers 7 2 Cars]

I know where you are comming from but the chap selling it has been really straight and it is tappy when up to temp and in Derby so less attractive but let's see what happens. Nothing is fixed yet although I am indeed leaning towards the 2 litre.

 

Just read through the other thread and it does seem the easiest way at the moment for you to go. I will be going over were the engine is tomorrow so will check it out and let you know.

[Atari Boy 11]

Just read through the other thread and it does seem the easiest way at the moment for you to go. I will be going over were the engine is tomorrow so will check it out and let you know.

 

Nice one Carl, I think in my time time frame it could well be best, even if my impending new 1.9 keyring will be wrong

Edited March 17, 2009 by Atari Boy

[MrG 3]

well Jonny if it gets you rolling again and works then that's all that matters, hope it works OK.

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

A tapping engine when up to temp is very likely to be a failed exhaust manifold gasket or sealing ring between downpipe & manifold imo, nothing more serious than that. Thats what it was on mine.

 

~£15 spend for a full set of manifold / head gaskets & downpipe kit from Pug would more than likely see it fixed.

 

Graham.

[Carl Chambers 7 2 Cars]

A tapping engine when up to temp is very likely to be a failed exhaust manifold gasket or sealing ring between downpipe & manifold imo, nothing more serious than that. Thats what it was on mine.

 

~£15 spend for a full set of manifold / head gaskets & downpipe kit from Pug would more than likely see it fixed.

 

Graham.

 

Id be supprised if thats all it was!

 

The gasket would make more noise when hot but all the 205s I have had with cracked manifolds only ticked when cold!

 

The engine he had was suppose to be rebuilt but look what has happened to that!

 

Time is not on his side so if a suspect is fitted then turns out to be no good then hes would be stuffed in going to the ring!

 

I think the XSi lump is the easiest route at the moment, not the best but if time was better than a GTi6 or turbo lump would be the way to go!

[welshpug 1,675]

I would rather not stick an iron block in of an unknown quantity that's not an upgrade over the alloy block myself!

 

Get the original engine diagnosed properly, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the tapping noise was something silly!

 

if it is bottom end rattle (but not a spun bearing) I would be more inclined to spend the money getting the original engine back to a healthy standard as it'll cost no more than swapping the whole caboodle.

[Atari Boy 11]

Well, a decision has been made; the 2 litre lump looks good so I am going for it. I will use the cam from the 1.9 as I understand it is mildly lumpier and get the head matched up the manifold. The exhaust manifold on my 1.9 has a crack and has been wielded so am I right in thinking the 2.0 one would be better?

 

I know it is heavier than I would like it to be but I am hopping with a new water pump, tensioner and cam belt along with the minor mods mentioned then it will prove to be a reliable little engine.

 

Time will tell.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Atari Boy

[Anthony 1,003]

Well, a decision has been made; the 2 litre lump looks good so I am going for it. I will use the cam from the 1.9 as I understand it is mildly lumpier and get the head matched up the manifold. The exhaust manifold on my 1.9 has a crack and has been wielded so am I right in thinking the 2.0 one would be better?

Exhaust manifolds are interchangeable on XU5/7/9/10 engines and nigh on the same bar some better stregthening on later manifolds, so keep the 2.0 one if that's uncracked. Remember that you'll need to check valve clearances and likely reshim the head after changing the cam - not a major issue whilst the engine is out, but fail to do it and it'll either rattle or potentially burn out a valve.

 

Also, when swapping the cam, change the cam bearing cap nuts for the XU9 ones, and use the XU9 cam cover.

 

I know it is heavier than I would like it to be but I am hopping with a new water pump, tensioner and cam belt along with the minor mods mentioned then it will prove to be a reliable little engine.

No reason that it shouldn't be reliable, Frenchness permitting. The bores do suffer wear worse than the liners in XU5/XU9 engines in my experience, but on a low mileage engine like you've found that shouldn't be an issue unless it's been significantly neglected. Only other issue is that they can spin bigend shells, but then again so can/do XU9's, and the XU10 engines have the benefit of better oil control and higher oil pressure/flow as standard to help prevent it.

[Atari Boy 11]

Thanks Anthony, some useful information, particularly regarding the cam bearing cap nuts and cam cover.

Forgive my thickness in advance, but the mention of oil got me thinking, does the XU10 have a sump baffle or is just the GTI-6 lumps that have them?

[Anthony 1,003]

Forgive my thickness in advance, but the mention of oil got me thinking, does the XU10 have a sump baffle or is just the GTI-6 lumps that have them?

With the exception of the early XU10J2 engines, they all have the full works - baffled sump, windage tray, chain guard, oil pump baffle, 6 bar spring, and larger oil pump drive sprocket

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

Id be supprised if thats all it was!

 

The gasket would make more noise when hot but all the 205s I have had with cracked manifolds only ticked when cold!

 

The engine he had was suppose to be rebuilt but look what has happened to that!

 

Time is not on his side so if a suspect is fitted then turns out to be no good then hes would be stuffed in going to the ring!

 

I think the XSi lump is the easiest route at the moment, not the best but if time was better than a GTi6 or turbo lump would be the way to go!

When I fitted a cheap pattern exhaust manifold gasket to my car (both on head face & downpipe side) it blew when it got hot & was fine with the engine cold.

 

All we know thats happened to this engine is its started tapping & been condemned as dead.

 

Assumption is its the little end bearings, which I'm still sure the 8v XU doesn't have due to the interference fit of the gudgeon pin into the rod.

 

A noise can be many things & its easy to condem the engine but without further investigation (a day would be more than enough) its still a guessing game whats wrong.

 

I understand the reasoning for fitting the XU10 due to time constraints for the Ring trip but in the time we've been discussing it on here a true diagnosis of whats wrong with his old engine could've been made.

 

Graham.

[welshpug 1,675]

When I fitted a cheap pattern exhaust manifold gasket to my car (both on head face & downpipe side) it blew when it got hot & was fine with the engine cold.

 

All we know thats happened to this engine is its started tapping & been condemned as dead.

 

Assumption is its the little end bearings, which I'm still sure the 8v XU doesn't have due to the interference fit of the gudgeon pin into the rod.

 

A noise can be many things & its easy to condem the engine but without further investigation (a day would be more than enough) its still a guessing game whats wrong.

 

I understand the reasoning for fitting the XU10 due to time constraints for the Ring trip but in the time we've been discussing it on here a true diagnosis of whats wrong with his old engine could've been made.

 

Graham.

 

Agreed there Graham, need to diagnose fully wehat the issue is, shouldnt in reality take long at all.

 

I have an 8 valve rod in front of me, no bearing/bush, it took 6 tons of pressure to remove the pin from it so it can't be small end rattle.