[engine_work] 205 Gti6 (vts)

[2052006 10]

Thought I'd better start a conversion thread, then hopefully I can put most of my queries into one place and (hopefully ) answers too...

 

With any luck, I've worked out how to upload photos too. So;

 

Bought this lovely looking thing a few weeks ago now and have slowly taken most things off it in the usual manner, sold some bits (see my for sale thread ) with the intention of keeping the engine and vts box

 

 

 

 

My 205 - originally a 1.6, put a 1.9 in it with 1.6 box last year, refurbed most suspension parts this winter and currently running SBC phase 1 suspension. Now itneeds more power again to go with the handling!

 

 

 

 

Getting there,

 

 

One rather large engine

 

Current state of affairs:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just need to check a few things if anyone knows:

 

Do I need the fuse box or anything in it/going from it (that's the black box on the n/s wing) before I get rid of the car? On the engine side of the loom, I have taken the whole loom off with the engine - this meant I disconnected the ecu and 2 round multi plugs - one towards the back of the engine bay on the n/s and one which connected to that fuse box. I think I am right in saying this is all I need wiring wise? ie. nothing from inside the cabin either?

Edited March 4, 2009 by 2052006

[2052006 10]

Also need to decide how I'm going to do the cooling. As far as I can see, I have two options:

 

1. Route similar to gti6 setup with a T-piece in top heater hose to expansion tank

 

2. Route similar to 8v setup using 306 TD/S16 distribution block

 

Not sure if either has an advantage over the other.

 

 

Also thinking I may bin the oil cooler setup for simplicity or does anyone find these vital?

 

 

Other question was regards engine mounts. I'm going to use a xantia TD lower mount as it's stiffer, but what about gearbox/upper ones? The vts upper is split, but do I need to use the vts rubber mounts or original 205 ones? (Don't want to go grp N if I can help it)

[platty 1]

Nope, you don't need any of the fusebox, or associated wiring. You can either cut off the big round multi plug on the engine side and make your connections, or pull some slack out from the cabin into the engine bay, cut the loom, and then make your connections to this. This will allow you to unplug the engine should you need to. Your call.

 

Engine mounts wise, I'm using GrpN's purely to minimise the engines movements as you'll see, it's a bit of a squeeze in the engine bay.

 

I can't remember what the VTS mounts look like now, but using the 205 mounts seems to be the preferred choice if your keeping the engine at the same height. otherwise its a RS2000 upper mount, and washers on top of the gearbox to lower the engine.

[2052006 10]

Superb, thanks Platty.

 

What clutch are you using? Think the options are as follows:

 

1.9mi16 clutch, be3 arm/fork and use be3 205 cable

 

OR

 

keep gti6/vts clutch and arm/fork and space out the 205 cable (my worry with spacing the cable is that it'll be a bit of a bodge?!)

[2052006 10]

Well, this has been a really rubbish project thread! I just couldn't be bothered uploading photos etc. Anyway, seeing as I was rather slack, I thought I'd update it with hopefully a useful post with a note of how I did my wiring. I certainly found it a struggle to find a definitive wiring list for the VTS engine conversion. This is by no means THE definitive way - this is the first time I've played about with wiring looms and had to learn how to solder - and I'm sure there are alternative ways and maybe better.

 

What I can say, is this way works, so hopefully someone in the position I was in 5/6 months ago may find this useful

 

 

Original 205 loom

 

205 9 pin plug – dash end

 

52 reverse light (dark grey)

53 reverse light (purple)

47 coolant light (yellow)

47a coolant gauge (red)

7a Alt light (dark grey)

30 oil pressure light (purple)

30a oil temp gauge (white)

30b oil pressure gauge (grey)

46b starter (blue)

 

205 6 pin plug – dash end

 

76 fuel pump (white)

M ignition amp (green/yellow)

112B Tacho feed (grey) AND 112C not connected (green)

2A Switched Live (red) AND 32A tachy relay (yellow)

 

 

VTS to 205 loom

 

VTS 23 pin plug wires followed by corresponding 205 wires

 

BB2 +12 (THICK BROWN) SHUNT BOX WIRE (THICK GREY)

CO2J SWITCHED + (LIGHT BROWN) 2A

CC4 SWITCHED + (LIGHT BROWN) 2A

BB1 SWITCHED + (PURPLE) 2A

C12 REVERSE (BROWN) 52

220 REVERSE (ORANGE) 53

1072 CHARGING LIGHT (GREY) 7A

100 STARTER (PINK) 46B

123 FUEL PUMP (GREY) 76

1200 FUEL PUMP (RED-THICK) 76

The following is how I did my gauges:

414 OIL LEVEL INDICATOR (YELLOW) 30B

410 OIL PRESSURE WARN (WHITE) 30

401 COOLANT TEMP DIAL (WHITE) 47A

808 AIR CON (LIGHT BROWN) USED TO CONNECT TO: 47

 

6 PIN PLUG (FUSE BOX N/S WING)

411 OIL TEMP (GREEN) spliced into an unused wire from 23 pin plug TO: 30A

 

I also used one of Spiky's looms (great btw) to connect TO: 112B

Edited July 31, 2009 by 2052006

[2052006 10]

I should add that my 205 loom is from a '91 phase 2 - a couple of the wires on earlier looms are sometimes swapped round between 9 and 6 pin brown multi plugs (switiched + and starter??) on some looms I believe.

 

The following is a list of the unused 23 pin plug wires from the VTS loom (obviously, as these are unused, I can't say these are definite. Also, mainly got from Platty's thread, but I'll put them here as well)

 

426 TACHO (YELLOW)

141 DIAGNOSTIC (RED)

822 ANTI START (PINK)

820 ANTI START (PINK)

465 SPEEDO (RED)

415 OIL LEVEL (YELLOW)

821 ANTI START (PINK)

140 DIAGNOSTIC (RED)

480 ENGINE MANAGMENT (BROWN)

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Yes: the most useless project thread ever!

 

The 6 & 9 pin brown plug summary's quite useful though.

 

I do however find the concept of an 'anti-start' wire hilarious though. That's not a dig at you, I'm just chuckling thinking through what travels down a wire to make a car NOT start, like it's an instruction saying "don't start". The alternative of course would be an actually needed wire, such as an earth not being grounded to allow it. I also like the fact that there are 3 of them. It just tickled me

 

So are you going to post anything else on how the conversion is or just leave us guessing?

[2052006 10]

Well, seeing as you ask : I had it MOT'd Monday and it passed with no advisories (first time for everything) so was pretty chuffed with that. Since then I've done about 350 miles, taking it to work and so on and am very pleased with it overall. It is in a different league in a straight line and the noise is awesome . I have a few teething problems to sort, such as the fuel feed not sealing properly to the rail and the gear rods touching something (exhaust/manifold). One thing that is not so good is what I think must be the difference in weight over the front wheels. I am sure it's not so agile as it was and the steering feels heavier in slower corners/roundabouts. I do however need new front tyres and have also changed to 1.9 hubs. How much difference the hubs make and new tyres will make, I don't know. Also, maybe it just takes a bit of getting used to after 6 months or whatever of not driving it. I know some people seem to think you can't notice the extra weight - I'm pretty sure I can. Overall though, I'm very pleased with how it's turned out and perhaps more surprised that I actually managed to do it! I will get some photos of the completed bay (maybe, in about 6 months )

[SurGie 54]

Any updates yet?