Bilstein B6, Challenge Spec Or Gaz Coilover. £500 Budget.

[mattmalden 0]

Hi,

 

It's time for some new suspension for my 205 1.9gti. After hours of reading all the excellent information here and elsewhere I've made a shortlist and before I spend any money thought I'd see if anyone has any opinions that will help in my final decision.

 

It seems that Eibach 7001 springs are they way to go - do we all agree? I'd like to bring the front end down by 30mm and they're ideal for that too.

 

For front dampers Bilstein B6 have been suggested but I've read that as the height is reducing I'd be better off with 'challenge spec' as these have a reduced stroke. Looking around the prices seem similar (approx £130 a side) so I can't differentiate on price alone. Please could anyone let me know if they have any experience of these?

 

For the rear I have 306 dampers but am considering group n Bilsteins instead.

 

The whole package costs around £500.

 

Finally - a curve ball.

 

Gaz coilovers sell for around £440 for all four corners. So on price they seem competitive. I assume I would have more control over the settings of these as, bump, rebound and height (at least on the front) is adjustable. The car is for daily road use and occasional track but I'd prefer to have a good setup from day1 then have to commit to hours in the garage setting up.

 

Does anyone think the GAZ coilovers would make a better purchase? Any experiences of these setups would be much appreciated.

 

Sorry for another post on suspension choices, but I'm sure you'll agree its a minefield out there and its a big commitment so I wouldn't want to make a bad choice.

 

Thanks.

 

Matt.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Hmm, Gaz or Bilstein.

 

Bilstein all the way for the small difference in price imo.

 

As for springs, a set of Skip Brown Roadspeed springs are probably better suited to either of the Bilstein shocks you're considering but Skip Brown's do a full phase 1 road speed kit which includes their own spec of Bilstein dampers & the Road speed springs but I think that might break the £500 budget.

 

Graham.

[Batfink 201]

Bilstein have recently raised their prices so the Gaz might be cheaper.

Front motorsport dampers are £160 odd each plus vat (not sure about the rears)

[mattmalden 0]

Hi Graham,

 

Thanks for your response - I'll give Skip Brown a call and see what the latest prices are and post them up here - assuming that doesn't break forum rules?

 

Can I ask why you would choose the Bilstein over the GAZ? I was thinking that with Gaz GHA coilovers being adjustable that better results in handling would be achieved. And there is very little difference in price.

 

Please can you let me know what you see as the pros and cons to both setups?

 

Thanks,

 

Matt.

 

 

Hmm, Gaz or Bilstein.

 

Bilstein all the way for the small difference in price imo.

 

As for springs, a set of Skip Brown Roadspeed springs are probably better suited to either of the Bilstein shocks you're considering but Skip Brown's do a full phase 1 road speed kit which includes their own spec of Bilstein dampers & the Road speed springs but I think that might break the £500 budget.

 

Graham.

[Batfink 201]

not sure about the Gaz ( I think their twin tube) but the mono tube bilsteins give a very good damper control at high speed, though due to their design they give a slightly harsher ride at very low speeds compared to twin tube damping.

Personally in my experience i'd go for the mono tube unless price is an issue...

[mattmalden 0]

Cheers Batfink,

 

The 7001 and Bilstein is looking like the front runner for me - I really can't find a bad word against them.

 

I'm a bit confused as there seems to be several part names:

B6

B8

Challenge spec

Sprintline

Sportline

Group N

 

I understand this to be the case in order of performance.

 

B6 = Sprintline/Sportline

B8 = Challenge Spec

Group N

 

Do you know if this is true? Also wondering why you'd not choose the GAZ GHA coilovers?

 

Cheers,

 

Matt.

 

 

not sure about the Gaz ( I think their twin tube) but the mono tube bilsteins give a very good damper control at high speed, though due to their design they give a slightly harsher ride at very low speeds compared to twin tube damping.

Personally in my experience i'd go for the mono tube unless price is an issue...

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I've never run Gaz so I can't give an honest opinion on them but I think to use the GAZ you need a top sping adaptor to use with standard mounts but hopefully someone with them already fitted will hopefully reply to confirm this.

 

IMO coilovers aren't really ideal if the car is used in all weather because the threads turn rusty & everything tends to seize up.

 

Posting the price of the SBC kit up here is fine, it'll be good to know what they are charging now for them.

 

Pro's of using Bilstein;

• Its what the factory used so well tested & has a good reputation for being the best for the money.
  
• Once fitted requires no further setting up.
  

Con's of Bilstein kit;

• Price
  

Suspension is one of the main areas where money well spent reaps the benefit over cheaper options imo.

 

Graham.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I've got GAZ coilovers on my car, I'm very happy with them, they came with all the required adaptors to use 2.25 springs with the standard top mounts.

[mattmalden 0]

Hi Tom,

 

Cheers for the reply, are yours the Gaz GHA coilover kit? Have you spent a longtime optimizing the settings? Have you ever driven with Eibach/Bilsteins as a comparison and if so what did you think? Also do you use your car on the road or is it for track use only? I'll be using mine daily (70 miles) so can't afford too harsh a ride.

 

 

I've got GAZ coilovers on my car, I'm very happy with them, they came with all the required adaptors to use 2.25 springs with the standard top mounts.

[johno_78 2]

I also run GAZ coilovers and have found them better on the road than Bilstein sportlines (i was young and stupid ) and unknown Koni's. The best suspension i have used on the fen roads local to me however have been OE Peugeot 205 Gti.

[Batfink 201]

Bilstein Part numbers

v36-0547 and v36-0548 for the fronts

b46-1038 for the rears

Official name in the catalogue is Race Group N or Rallye Group N

[porter_bmx 0]

i'm running the sbc road speed kit. have had no problems with them and they feel spot on.

[2052006 10]

I paid £787 delivered (inc a £40 surcharge for my old struts) for SBC Phase 1 suspension in Jan this year. Take off the surcharge and then add new top mount rubbers (I used BBM fast road) and new bearings and you're looking at nigh on 800 quid. That's a lot of money in my book, especially for a 205...

 

However, now they have bedded in (they did seem a bit harsh to begin with) it seems to work very well for road use. Not done a track day with it fitted yet.

 

I can only compare them with tired standard suspension though.

 

Have to say, I wouldn't want it any firmer though. I do wonder whether new OE shocks and maybe some Eibachs or even just OE springs would be better if used purely for the road. If you intend to track it though, I suppose you have to reach a compromise.

 

All in all I am very happy with the SCB choice though.

[2052006 10]

Also, have you made sure your rear beam is ok?

[mattmalden 0]

Hi 2052006,

 

I'm not certain about the rear beam. It seems fine at the moment, and just passed its MOT. There are no nasty knocks or noises coming from it. The thing is - its pretty low. My other 205 (currently dry stored) sat lower than standard but higher than this one. I think this one may have been lowered 3 splines and the other 2. Having said that I do prefer the feel at the rear of this car, but think the front is a bit light and less precise. Rather than raise the back to standard I'd prefer to lower the front as I do intend to use this at the track sometimes.

 

I think the SBC Phase 1 kit is just out of my range, I wonder if porter_bmx's road speed kit is cheaper. I must call SBC for info, I'm not sure what components they use, although I thought I'd heard its custom billies and their own springs.

 

How much do you think the BBM fast road top mount rubbers contribute to the harshness? Did you run the SBC setup on std items first or change everything at once?

 

I'd probably keep my oe frt dampers too but they leak, and as I need new ones the Bilsteins seem better and cheaper then going to Peugeot. Why would you buy oe not bilstein for the road?

 

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the advice!

 

Cheers..

 

Also, have you made sure your rear beam is ok?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Bilsteins all the way, I have tried or driven with the entry level Gaz's and the control is missing compared with the Billies and the other bonus with the std dia spring of the Bilstein's you don;t have to worry about maintenance like you do with Coil over's with rust and collor's rusting up

Again the Eibach's are far better than the SBC spring's having swaped a few over now.

[2052006 10]

I had the beam refurbed first (by someone who knew what they were doing ) then fitted it with group A mounts - this was very good, made the back more stable etc.

 

I then fitted the sbc stuff all at once, so it's hard to say re the top mount rubbers I'm afraid. It's a nice set-up, but like I say, I would like to try a car with all new standard suspension - I think that would probably be the best for purely road use (for me anyway). Of course, if you're intending to take it on track, then stiffer the better really I guess. If you want it for both, then you're going to have to compromise. The sbc kit is a good compromise though (but may not be the best, especially considering the cost. I'm sure there are cheaper ways if you know your stuff)

[porter_bmx 0]

ive got the same kit as 2052006, but mines getting on a bit now.... 14 years old to be precise but it still is running ok on the car. might be a good idea to renew them soon but if there not faulty why change them

[richsmells 2]

I have the SBC springs with new genuine shocks and the ride is poor, especially over bumps and uneven roads. I'm thinking of swapping to Eibachs.

[mattmalden 0]

Sounds like the quality of SBC is very high - 14 years old! Some mixed reviews though..

 

Apparently Miles is waiting for a delivery of B6's and the date is unknown. I think I'll fit the Eibachs for now as everyone seems to rave about them - especially for road use. Hopefully the B6s will arrive before my dampers completely go home! At least this way I'll get to asses the effect of each change, so its not all bad!

 

Cheers for all your input, wheres my switch card...

 

ive got the same kit as 2052006, but mines getting on a bit now.... 14 years old to be precise but it still is running ok on the car. might be a good idea to renew them soon but if there not faulty why change them

[brian j 32]

Sounds like the quality of SBC is very high - 14 years old! Some mixed reviews though..

 

I have the 306 version of the kit on my daily driver.

 

It is amazing, but with a few reservations.

 

When it was new the ride was as harsh as... Honestly I made myself carsick driving down the A50 Stoke to Derby on the way back (concrete road)

 

After 10K miles it settled to being firm but OK.

 

After 60K miles it is just about perfect. Firm, well damped and awesome grip. The only downfall is that it still gets a bit choppy on concrete motorways. BUT the car has settled about 2" in that time and really could do with being a little better on ground clearance now.

 

If I was doing it again, I'd do the billies/eibach combo, because it is supposed to ride better and it's a good chunk cheaper. The 205 is going to stay standard though!

[Guest Wheres_my_wig]

Alrite Chaps,

 

Ive got Blistein Sprt shocks and eibach springs being fitted as we speak, new top mounts, new wishbones n bushes and new ARB bushes. Last weekend fitted my Refurbished rear beam from anthony, with 21mm torsions bars and Blistein sprt shocks (by this i mean the yellow billies) and Group N mounts.

 

This is all to replace standard parts that are on there ATM. Get the car back tomrrow, after a drive, i am going to report back to let you know how wide my grin is. Also got Git6 front disks and calipers, braided hoses, and new rear calipers going on.

 

Should be sharper than a sharp thing im hoping....

[mattmalden 0]

Hi Brian, Hi Wig

 

Luckily I have 2 D reg 1.9's the other is off the road at the mo but after a bit of welding will return. This car is a mint red one 101k miles that I've owned for 12 years. The idea is to test the setup on the red car and if i like it swap it to the grey one (which I'm planning a 306 gti6 engine conversion for). I'll then put the red back to standard also as i can then have the best of both worlds.

 

When I inquired to Peugeot about std springs they needed to know what colour paint was on the current spring - but on mine its come off! I'll be posting/searching about that subject as soon as the grey ones back on the road - but its worth you thinking about too by the sounds of it.

 

Wig - sounds like you won't be spending much time at home over the next few days! Is the rear beam gonna be lowered at all or did Anthony set it back to standard height? Or can that only be set upon assembly to the vehicle? It's something I'll not doubt be getting round to in the near future, going back to standard that is. Hope you enjoy your new setup and look forward to reading you views - sounds like it might take some miles before it settles though so don't be too hasty in judging!

 

Cheers,

 

Matt.

 

I have the 306 version of the kit on my daily driver.

 

It is amazing, but with a few reservations.

 

When it was new the ride was as harsh as... Honestly I made myself carsick driving down the A50 Stoke to Derby on the way back (concrete road)

 

After 10K miles it settled to being firm but OK.

 

After 60K miles it is just about perfect. Firm, well damped and awesome grip. The only downfall is that it still gets a bit choppy on concrete motorways. BUT the car has settled about 2" in that time and really could do with being a little better on ground clearance now.

 

If I was doing it again, I'd do the billies/eibach combo, because it is supposed to ride better and it's a good chunk cheaper. The 205 is going to stay standard though!