Gti-6 Shocks: Which Springs? Can The '6 Ones Be Used?

[Stu 18]

Hi all,

 

The '6 shocks have been used by many folk on the 205, but i wonder which spring would be best to use.

 

Lets say you've got some GTI-6 Koni's or equivalent, with matching lowering springs intended for the '6, if you swap the top mounts to the 205 type how would they fair on the 205?

 

Im guessing the spring rate would be a little higher on the '6 springs, but thats what im trying to achieve, i need to stiffen the front up as cheaply as is possible at the moment.

 

Anyone done this? Any experiences?

[Anthony 1,002]

306 springs will make a 205 sit very high by comparison - to give you an idea, some 35mm (ish) 306 lowering springs made my 205 sit around 25mm higher than standard...

[Stu 18]

Any idea on how they compare poundage wise Anthony?

 

My main reason for asking is ive dropped on a set of nearly new '6 Konis with 60mm lowering springs, i was just wondering if they'd be any good to use as is?

[Anthony 1,002]

I can't remember the exact figures, but the 306 springs worked out as a higher poundage than the 205 lowering springs that I was using at the time and I thought would be a good match for the uprated torsion bars that I was using - sadly, the comedy 4x4 stance ruled out using them.

 

If you've already got the shocks/springs there's no harm in giving them a go - 60mm springs might sit at a reasonable height on a 205.

[Stu 18]

Judging by that then i guess -60mm springs will bring it to a fraction under stock height...

 

Hmmm....

[marksorrento205 80]

Interesting post. I too have been looking down this route for when I put my GTI6 engine in. The advice I was given was the same as anthony has said about the spings. What are the pros and cons of using 309 gti spring with the gti6 damper and 205 top mounts? Im not trying to hijack here just get some info and maybe give you some ideas too

[Anthony 1,002]

Judging by that then i guess -60mm springs will bring it to a fraction under stock height...

That's what I reckoned as well, but I didn't have any to hand nor was anyone selling any cheap locallty, and I wasn't about to spend £50-60 on a new set of springs only to find out that I was wrong and they didn't sit/ride like I wanted them to. Be interesting to hear how you get on though, as it has the potentially to be a cheap way to a mild increase in spring rates that should work well on road-biased cars coupled with a moderate increase in the size of the rear torsion bars.

[fangio 1]

I have a sixed 205 and have played around with different spring rates and lengths.

 

I ended up buying a custom made pair from Faulkners. £115 delivered.

 

They are 100lbs/in rate, just slightly firmer than std 205/306 which are 95lbs/in.

 

I worked out the sprung weight of the front corners which is around 630lbs.

 

A std 205/306 spring is 180mm long when at static deflection, which is about middle position on the shock travel, which is what you want, otherwise you run the risk of topping and bottoming out the shock.

 

So I asked for 100lbs/in rate and that the spring be 180mm long when 630lbs is applied.

 

It now sits as a std 1.9 alloy engine car would and the ride is the same.

 

 

I tried 309 springs but they don't have enough length and therefore preload and sit too low. So shock was permantly on the bumpstops.

 

306 springs have way too much preload in for a even a '6'ed 205 - front sprung corner wt of 306 is around 760lbs.

 

Most 206s are around the same wt as a '6'ed 205 - I tried a pair of Eibach lowering springs for 206s which had about the same front corner wts. They were 148lbs/in and lowered the car about 15mm. They were very good but I wanted the original feel for the Eurotrip and may put them back on with B8s and uprated tbs later.

 

Cheers. Paul.

[Castorkid 11 1 Cars]

Hi all,

Have just had a gti6 engine fitted in my fast road 205 and I am now running a little too low at the front. Currently I'm on Eibachs. Have read all the posts on the forum and found this from 2009 recommending 206 Eibach lowering springs for gti6'd 205s. Has anyone tried this? If so which 206 model were the springs designed for and what damper were they paired with?

Cheers

Nick

[2052006 10]

I saw this topic when searching too and thought it was an interesting option, but couldn't find anything else on 206 Eibachs being used.

 

I too am suffering from the front being too low with a gti6 lump. I use SBC springs which as I understand it are slightly shorter, again, than Eibachs. This results in the wishbones pointing very slightly the wrong way - not good. I think with Eibachs, the wishbones will be just about level, though this is still not ideal. Is this what you have found?

 

Only other option I can find is PLR tarmac springs, though I understand this may make it sit too high! Also, they are 180lb, which is quite a bit more than either the Eibachs or the SBCs I think.

 

Let me know if you find out any more info about these 206 Eibachs...

[Castorkid 11 1 Cars]

The aim of my current set up is fast road/occasional track day. Have been playing around with this for the last three years. Have not yet resorted to coilovers, but I suspect it is inevitable.

My current set up is:

Solid mounted rear beam with 306 negative camber radius arms
21mm PTS torsion bars
Standard 19mm rear arb

205 tarmac rear dampers (460/250)

309 front wishbones

Group N top mount rubbers

Bilstein group N dampers on the front (260/120)
205gti Eibach prokit springs - EW 7001 001 VA

Standard front arb

 

With the 8v engine, the front wishbones were horizontal and the drop was about 35mm lower than standard. With the Gti6 engine, the wishbones are now pointing upwards. Not measured before and after, but I suspect the additional weight has dropped the front by 10mm or so.

 

I have read that the 180lb PLR tarmac springs sit the car at about standard height (even in a gti6 engined 205) and having seen a pic of Paul_13’s nice 205gti6 with them fitted this would certainly seem to be the case.

 

In an ideal world, I would like to up the front spring rate a little to help match the torsion bars and raise it up by 10mm or so to give me back my 35mm drop from standard.

 

The options I am currently researching further are the xsara VTS and 306 lowering springs, and now the 206 ones!

 

If anyone has any experience of any of these springs on a 205gti6 I’d really appreciate the feedback.

 

Cheers

 

Nick

[2052006 10]

Well, I don't know what happened there, I posted a great long post about various Eibach spring possibilities a couple of days ago and now it's not here. I know it was posted as Welshpug replied to it!

 

Anyway, from searching the forum, I found the 206 Eibachs Fangio was using, as referred to in this thread, were Pro-Kit E7025-120 which he thought lowered a 205 gti6 about 15mm.

 

Looking through other threads and the Eibach catalogue I'm wondering if 106, phase 2, Eibach Pro-Kit springs might work. These springs are listed as dropping a 106 20mm. On a 205, they don't drop it much from standard height, apparently, but with a gti6 engine I would have thought these would give at least a bit of a drop.

 

The 106 Sportline, E20-70-001-01-20, which is listed as lowering a 106 45-50mm apparently drops a 205 (I presume 8v) about 30-35mm. So I doubt these would be any good with a gti6 lump up front.

 

Another possibility are Xsara vts Eibachs (E2205-120 30mm). It would seem even 306 lowering springs don't lower a 205 below standard height, but what about these ones for the Xsara vts, seeing as though (I think) standard vts springs are shorter than a 306's to start with?

 

Anyone tried any of the Eibachs, as above, for the 206, 106 or Xsara vts?

Edited November 1, 2013 by 2052006

[jackherer 543]

Well, I don't know what happened there, I posted a great long post about various Eibach spring possibilities a couple of days ago and now it's not here. I know it was posted as Welshpug replied to it!

 

There was a forum software upgrade that caused a load of problems and had to be rolled back so some posts were lost unfortunately.

[Castorkid 11 1 Cars]

Still researching this one. What are the forums thoughts on using the 106 Faulkner 155lb -40mm lowering springs on my 205gti6?

[2052006 10]

I was also wondering about those Faulkners too.

 

Currently thinking I might try and get hold of some of the S2 106 Eibach Pro-Kit (E7016-120) second hand and give them a go:

 

The S1 106 use the same Eibach Pro-Kit (E7001-120) as the 205 and they give about the same drop, I think - 30-35mm. The 7016-120 drop the S2 106 about 20mm, which is the sort of drop I'm after. Is the front of a S2 106 really going to be much heavier than a sixed 205? Anyone know?

[Castorkid 11 1 Cars]

What about using a spacer to raise the body up?

I'm happy with the spring rate of the Eibachs but they are just a bit low with the 6 engine. Could I use a spacer to increase the ride height a bit? Has any one done this?

Nick

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Be aware that some Eibach springs, like the 205 GTI Pro-Kit, have progressive spring rate (rate increases with compression and is what makes them so good).

 

iirc, the 206 GTI springs are ~2cm longer than 205 GTI springs. I did try the Eibach Sportline of the 206 GTI (-50mm, 21-70-002-01-VA, also progressive) on my 205 with 2.0 8v turbo engine and it looked comparable, or slightly higher than the 205 GTI Pro-kit with alloy Mi16.

But I never drove with it, as I replaced almost directly with a coil over set.

Edited November 24, 2013 by wicked

[Castorkid 11 1 Cars]

Great info that thanks. Still pondering the spacer idea...

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Spacers don't change de spring rate. I did expect the 206 progressive springs to have a steeper/higher spring rate, as the 206 gti is heavier and the max allowed weight according the tuv approval was higher. But that's based on reasoning, not on facts....

[Castorkid 11 1 Cars]

Yes, I've no real interest in raising the spring rate, just the ride height. The spring rate of the Eibachs I believe is 80-205lbs, which feel like a good match with my 21mm torsion bars.

Would just be looking to regain the 10mm or so that the 6 engine has taken up.