Strange Request

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Evening all,

 

I'm going to be replacing all the bushes/arm etc for my front suspesion tomoro with 309 items.

 

The question is: Has anybody got a 205 with 309 bottom arms and a manual steering?

I need a measurement of how far the TRE is in the arm as the 309 driveshafts are longer.

 

If you could measure from the inside of the nut to the centre of the post on the TRE that would be much appreciated

 

Thanks Paul

[MerlinGTI 3]

I could of completely misunderstood the point of your request, but I hope your not intending to adjust your tracking for use with 309 wishbones using measurements from someone elses motor?

 

I changed my TRE's today, as I was in a hurry and didnt have time to do a geo, I measured how much thread was visible on the old TRE's with a vernier caliper and then used this with the new TRE's. The result? My steering wheel is seriously pissed! Thats the same measurements on the same car just different TRE's, Transfering settings from a completely different car... Well you would be better off setting your wheels stright by eye only!

[Goliath 94]

When changing TRE's I set them straight by eye, if they look right I then take it for a short drive and its pretty easy to tell if its wildly out, if it is then adjust it, if its not then it should be ok to drive it to a garage to get the trcking done properly. IMO no matter how long you send faffing about with measurements you wil never get it straight without doing it properly by laser, unfortunately tracking is one of those must have expenses!

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

That was the gist of it MerlinGTI funnily enough. Very valid point thou, French tolerances and general Frenchness can throw things out. I'll bodge them in and get the tracking done.

 

Has any one got any nifty ways of lining up the wheels easy? I heard string is one way of doing it not sure how

[philfingers 5]

ypou can use string and 4 axle stands. I did my 309 this way and it's reasonably accurate but i still got it done eight afterwards. I have a set of dunlop gauges now and use those.

 

Phil

[M_R_205 5 1 Cars]

bizzarely enough i fitted 309 arms to my gti today and for some utterly stupid reason it didnt cross my mind that the tracking would need to be done too, so when i set off for home the tracking/steering was a mile out, getting home was an absoloute nitmare!! i had to stop about a mile away and do the tracking by eye at the side of the road, wasnt that bad afterwards though,

Edited March 1, 2009 by M_R_205

[philfingers 5]

I think 309 bottom arms add about 10mm each to the track to give you a starting point. Be careful of course you have at least 20mm odd of thread inside the tie rods!

[jengis 0]

Not sure why more people don't trust DIY tracking methods. Its not that difficult to get within half mm accuracy if done carefully. I've read quite a few DIY methods, but I like mine best!

 

Tape measure, two long straight edges, metal rule and a lazer level, approx. £20 from home DIY shops. Lazer is to center the steering properly, but even if you haven't got one trial runs on the road will see if you have centred the wheel.

 

The method is easiest with a second pair of hands and it is critical to have a flat/level surface:

 

1 - ensure steering is straight

Hold the lazer level against the rim protector on the front tyre, pointing it back to the rear wheel. Use your helper to hold the rule horizontal out from the centre of the rear wheel. You need to measure the distance from the wheel face to the lazer mark. Do this on the other side and check that the distances are the same (they should be if the steering wheel is straight, if its not the steering arms are unequal lengths or there are other alignment issues)

 

2 - measure the toe

This is why you need two long straight edges (and two people). They need to be held against the rim protector on the outside of each tyre, about 3/4's the way down on the wheel (so that a tape measure can run between them under the car without sump or subframe getting in the way). They need to be long enough to stick out past the front and rear of the wheel - 50cm should do it. You then just measure the distance between the front and back edges. The difference is the toe measurement. It really is that simple! You can even do it without a helper if you use elastic bands or some other way of attaching the straight edges.

 

3 - adjust to get the toe setting you want (zero is my preference)

Lengthen or shorten the track rod ends by equal amounts and then go back to point 1.

 

4 - check and adjust for rear axle alignment

Sometimes the rear beam is not perfectly in line and the rear toe is different between sides. Use the lazer level on the rears in a similar way as for the fronts (though it will probably point to the tyre itself not thin air due to narrower track and lots of toe-in). If they are similarly toed in then everything is fine but if there is a bit of difference then the steering arms should be adjusted to point the fronts the same way (by a very small amount and probably not worth worrying about unless you find steering is slightly off center when driving).

 

Toe should strictly speaking be described as an angle but the measurement gained from the above method is fine if your aiming for somewhere near zero mm. I have done a few friends cars like this who have come back from garages with badly tracked/off centre steering and they all felt much better with perfectly centred steering. All my tyres wear perfectly so I'm happy with the accuracy.

Edited March 1, 2009 by jengis

[M_R_205 5 1 Cars]

2 - measure the toe

This is why you need two long straight edges (and two people). They need to be held against the rim protector on the outside of each tyre, about 3/4's the way down on the wheel (so that a tape measure can run between them under the car without sump or subframe getting in the way). They need to be long enough to stick out past the front and rear of the wheel - 50cm should do it. You then just measure the distance between the front and back edges. The difference is the toe measurement. It really is that simple! You can even do it without a helper if you use elastic bands or some other way of attaching the straight edges.

 

I have used this methord alone in the past. by cable tieing the straight edges to the wheels sticking out both in front and behind the wheels and making the distance between the two the same, to get the rack centred i counted the lock to lock turns of the steering wheel and set it at the half way point.

 

wasnt 100% acurate but nay on.

 

Paul.

[jengis 0]

I have used this methord alone in the past. by cable tieing the straight edges to the wheels sticking out both in front and behind the wheels and making the distance between the two the same, to get the rack centred i counted the lock to lock turns of the steering wheel and set it at the half way point.

 

wasnt 100% acurate but nay on.

 

Paul.

 

Absolutely! Better than a lot of garages manage anyway from what I have seen. I'll never pay for tracking to be done by someone else. Its down to the staff doing it and if they have the patience (or knowledge) required to keep adjusting and re-adjusting both sides until its centred properly. It also would cost a fortune if, like me, you like to experiment with different settings.

[philfingers 5]

just need to account foer the different track between front and back. For instance with 309 front arms and std rear 205 beam if the front is paralllel then the stright edge will never touch the back wheels as the track is narrower. I set mine up wth the dunlop gauges today (£80 ebay bargain that was in a poor listing with not so good title). Get the tracking dead on and once you tighten the TREs all up it knocks it out by another 10 minutes.. . Took me an hour, yet I know it's right now,

 

 

Phil

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Some helpful info.

 

By fluke i added 10mm to each TRE and steering seems ok, will be getting it do properly thou.

 

The 309 bits totally change the feel of the car.

[shalmaneser 26]

Some helpful info.

 

By fluke i added 10mm to each TRE and steering seems ok, will be getting it do properly thou.

 

The 309 bits totally change the feel of the car.

 

I've just fitted 309 bones and wasn't expect so much change in the tracking - i fully expected that it would need to be done but it's miles out...I'll give the DIY options on here a go this eve.