Heeeeeeeeeeeelp Gearbox Change Problems

[flipperthebushkangaroo 2]

OK so I've started the dreaded clutch/ gearbox change and got a bit stuck to say the least so I'm after your collective advice,

The story so far,

Working my way through the gear box change guide car is on Axel stands wheels are off, wishbone ball joints are disconnected.

 

Problem 1 when i pulled Gently on the passengers side drive shaft it did not com out but split at the inner ball joint assembly.

Can this be reassembled and if so how? (drive shafts are original as far as i know and that means 19 years and 160 000 miles)

 

Problem 2 After loosening off the intermediate bearing for the drivers side it seems to be seized solid did not want to pull on end and repeat problem 1 but can't see any movement at the gearbox end at all, it says in the guide to Tap the inner bearing with a hammer where exactly should i be hitting I've tried but no luck. If the bearing will not free off can the mount be removed and if so should i replace the bearing and drive shaft?

 

Problem 3 Thought i would continue the strip so as to reduce work when drive shafts are sorted but haven't got a big enough Allen key for the starter motor (also clearance between it and the clutch arm looks tight) does anyone know the correct size of Allen key to get?

 

question 4 If i need to replace the drive shafts where is the best place to get them are non OEM parts OK or have people had issues with them.

 

Sorry to ramble on but today has been very frustrating, i have had a search but found nothing specific enough.

 

All advice gratefully received

Roddie

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

Hi mate,

1- The driveshafts can be put back together,as long as you havnt split the boots,the boots can be replaced aswell though,but by the time you buy the boots and fit them to the 160mile shafts you might find it easier to just buy new ones,just depends how flush youre feeling,lol.

2 - As for the bearing issue,are you sure the heads on the bolts are turned through 180degrees to allow the shaft to come out of the housing? If it is seized you can just undo the housing and remove the lot.

3 - From memory its an 8mm allen key for the starter bolts,if you cant find one to squeeze in between the clutch arm you can knock the roll pin out of the clutch arm and remove it.

4 - Iv bought driveshafts from motor factors nd had no problems,and even if you do there guarenteed for 12months anyway.

 

Hope you get it sorted,we all have those days,its called life

[flipperthebushkangaroo 2]

Thanks for the swift reply, can i ask a couple more?

how do the drive shafts go back together? (how are they held together?)

What grease do i need to use?

can you suggest a good penetrating fluid to try and loosen things a bit? on the intermediate bearing.

Time for a beer to chill with i feel

 

Thanks again

Roddie

Edited February 18, 2009 by flipperthebushkangaroo

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

Thanks for the swift reply, can i ask a couple more?

how do the drive shafts go back together? (how are they held together?)

can you suggest a good penetrating fluid to try and loosen things a bit? on the intermediate bearing.

Time for a beer to chill with i feel

 

Thanks again

Roddie

 

There is three knuckles,they have got to be located in the three grooves in the cup,they just kinda sit there,when you take the boot off all will become clear.

 

WD40 is good stuff

 

Ah a beer,dont mind if i do,lol

[Greg205 0]

Hi there, imo you would be better off getting some reconditioned drive shafts, I use GSF, they charge about £60 a shaft, you have to give them your old one though. As for the intermediate bearing just take out the locking bolts completly, spray with wd40 (other light oils are available!) And pull, taking care not to split the boots, if you do, try not to seperate the shafts as you will probably damage the bearings. If you do damage the bearings (you will notice lots of little pieces of metal in the grease) It will be cheaper to buy a new shaft.

[steve@cornwall 100]

Hopefully you have the driveshafts where the end 3 roller bearing assys are retained with a circlip - otherwise you are left scrabbling around to refi the rollers, fit the outer bearing and finally reassemble the shaft - not fun and if you have the cash just buy new.

 

As for the o/s driveshaft, you can remove the gearbox with this in place - but it's almost impossible to put the 'box back with it in situ.Luckily, once the 'box is off you can protect the end of the shaft with a block of wood and "tap" it straight out (My "tapping" implement is a 5lb lump hammer - used with caution it's invaluable)

[StuF215 1 1 Cars]

There should be a raised section on the driveshaft on the gearbox side of the bearing right near the mount. If you get an old screwdriver and hit (big hammer) it towards the drivers wheel the bearing should come out of the engine mount. Careful if you hit the bearing its likely you will damage it. As said alreay make sure the 2 11mm golf club shaped bolts are twisted round to allow the bearing to come out.

 

I wouldnt pull the shafts by their ends as splitting the shafts from the cvs always seems to be a bad thing for me. Fixable, but a pain in the you know what.

 

If its really seized then take the mount off as said already.

[dcc 855]

Ive just taken a box off an mi engine. the size of the allen key is either 8mm or 6mm. any set of hexkeys should have one in. also, the box should come off without having to take out the driver side shaft. or to get the intermediate bearing out, I grabbed the shaft and hit it VERY hard with a rubber mallet, and a hole punch of sorts. mine had grit and such didnt want to budge! they wern't original shafts, so iIdread to think what yours might be like!

 

I would be tempted, if in your situation, to purchase new 309 shafts and wishbones. but ofc thats only becuase they give slightly wider track on the front!

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

Hopefully you have the driveshafts where the end 3 roller bearing assys are retained with a circlip - otherwise you are left scrabbling around to refi the rollers, fit the outer bearing and finally reassemble the shaft - not fun and if you have the cash just buy new.

 

As for the o/s driveshaft, you can remove the gearbox with this in place - but it's almost impossible to put the 'box back with it in situ.Luckily, once the 'box is off you can protect the end of the shaft with a block of wood and "tap" it straight out (My "tapping" implement is a 5lb lump hammer - used with caution it's invaluable)

 

I know what its like looking for that last roller that escaped. Renaults have the same thing and weve got a pot of spare rollers,just incase,lol

[flipperthebushkangaroo 2]

Hopefully you have the driveshafts where the end 3 roller bearing assys are retained with a circlip - otherwise you are left scrabbling around to refi the rollers, fit the outer bearing and finally reassemble the shaft - not fun and if you have the cash just buy new.

 

As for the o/s driveshaft, you can remove the gearbox with this in place - but it's almost impossible to put the 'box back with it in situ.Luckily, once the 'box is off you can protect the end of the shaft with a block of wood and "tap" it straight out (My "tapping" implement is a 5lb lump hammer - used with caution it's invaluable)

 

Thanks again for the swift replies

 

Are the drive shafts supposed to come apart very easily as i barely touched this one and the inner joint came apart? the 3 roller bearings are not secured as one fell off as it separated, back on now though,is the outer bearing on the wheel end of the drive shaft as i have not noticed it as yet. thinking about it did not see any rollers either and there is nothing on the floor? (car is 10 miles away luckily in a shed)

 

Is it OK to replace the driveshafts individually or should they be changed as a pair?

Thanks again

Roddie

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

Thanks again for the swift replies

 

Are the drive shafts supposed to come apart very easily as i barely touched this one and the inner joint came apart? the 3 roller bearings are not secured as one fell off as it separated, back on now though,is the outer bearing on the wheel end of the drive shaft as i have not noticed it as yet. thinking about it did not see any rollers either and there is nothing on the floor? (car is 10 miles away luckily in a shed)

 

Is it OK to replace the driveshafts individually or should they be changed as a pair?

Thanks again

Roddie

 

It doesnt take much to pull em apart,they are French remember,lol.

If the whole thing with the three balls on it came off youre lucky,if one of the balls fell off you will see rollers,loads of em.

I think they meant the intermediate bearing.

 

You can replace driveshafts induvidually.

[steve@cornwall 100]

I know what its like looking for that last roller that escaped. Renaults have the same thing and weve got a pot of spare rollers,just incase,lol

 

Yup - spare pot of Pug rollers here, too! - but, typically of pug there are more than 1 size

 

The outer bearing I mentioned is the metal ring that sits over the rollers, If yours has slipped straight back on you're a lucky fella! Turn the ring around carefully to make sure there are no gaps due to fallen rollers, 'cos then you have to find it (may well be in all the grease in the boot.............)Don't really want one loose in the CV.

 

Not dropped many of these.... there's 33 rollers per bearing and 99 to a CV BTW

 

It's only the clips around the CV boot that holds them together, so yes, they come apart easily

Edited February 18, 2009 by steve@cornwall

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

Not dropped many of these.... there's 33 rollers per bearing and 99 to a CV BTW

 

Have you sat down a counted these?

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Ive just taken a box off an mi engine. the size of the allen key is either 8mm or 6mm.

Any bolts hold the gearbox to the engine will be either 16mm hex or 8mm Allen bolts but the Allen bolts are usually for the starter & one bolt at the rear of the engine through the web into the gearbox (the only one that goes that way).

 

It fairly rare imo for the passenger driveshaft to split like yours did, the diff end is usually very easy to pull out, often when you don't want it to spliiling gearbox oil on the floor whilst changing a strut or wishbone.

 

GKN driveshafts from GSF are about the best you can get for a sensible price now but be certain to get the GKN ones & not the cheaper ones.

 

Graham.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Can;t believe no one has said it, If you heat the housing up where the D/S bearing sit's it comes out with ease,

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

Can;t believe no one has said it, If you heat the housing up where the D/S bearing sit's it comes out with ease,

 

Shouldnt heat up a bearing,they have plastic dust seals,and they cant stand the heat,lol. If your going to replace it then heat away.

[flipperthebushkangaroo 2]

Thanks again for all the advice,

I've just spent another 7 frustrating hours shouting at my car and have a couple more questions,

Do you need to remove the exaust to fit the phosphor bronze bushes to the gearbox linkage pivot? i have tried in vain to pop the cap off to get at the bolt head but can't seem to get it off.

Also having knackered the passangers side drive shaft i'm now struggling to get it out of the hub, already killed one (cheap) ratchet and now have a 16" breaker bar on it but it won't move (yes i have opened up the bent in bits). Given that the box is out, the wishbone disconnected at the hub, and the car's sat on axel stands does anyone have any suggestions?

On the plus side i've taken the battery tray off and sorted the rust below that and painted up a replacement tray (cheers Baz, how long has that been waiting to be done!!!!!) just need to top coat it before fitting the try and new mount.

 

Thanks as ever for putting up with my daft questions and for giving your advice.

 

Roddie

[flipperthebushkangaroo 2]

Thanks again for all the advice,

I've just spent another 7 frustrating hours shouting at my car and have a couple more questions,

Do you need to remove the exaust to fit the phosphor bronze bushes to the gearbox linkage pivot? i have tried in vain to pop the cap off to get at the bolt head but can't seem to get it off.

Also having knackered the passangers side drive shaft i'm now struggling to get it out of the hub, already killed one (cheap) ratchet and now have a 16" breaker bar on it but it won't move (yes i have opened up the bent in bits). Given that the box is out, the wishbone disconnected at the hub, and the car's sat on axel stands does anyone have any suggestions?

On the plus side i've taken the battery tray off and sorted the rust below that and painted up a replacement tray (cheers Baz, how long has that been waiting to be done!!!!!) just need to top coat it before fitting the try and new mount.

 

Thanks as ever for putting up with my daft questions and for giving your advice.

 

Roddie

 

Anybody got any suggestions?????

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

No you don't need to take the exhaust off, try some grips on the tin cover, if all else fails butcher it with a sharp driver and a hammer.

 

As for the shaft, you are going to need someone with a windy gun, so remove the hub from the strut and take hub/shaft complete to a friendly garage or tyre fitters with a windy gun, most places will probably do it for you if you bung them a couple of quid for the coffee fund.

[flipperthebushkangaroo 2]

No you don't need to take the exhaust off, try some grips on the tin cover, if all else fails butcher it with a sharp driver and a hammer.

 

As for the shaft, you are going to need someone with a windy gun, so remove the hub from the strut and take hub/shaft complete to a friendly garage or tyre fitters with a windy gun, most places will probably do it for you if you bung them a couple of quid for the coffee fund.

 

Cheers for that tom,

What is the tin cover for? if i trash it getting it off does it matter or will i need a new one.

Roddie

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Just a cover to keep the grease in I assume, best to replace IMO.

[flipperthebushkangaroo 2]

OK its official I'm a buffoon .

When you leave the engine hanging on two mounts while the gearbox is off the engine sags a little, this reduces the gap between the down pipe and the gear linkage pivot so the cover won't come off.

Stuck a jack under the engine and the pivot came apart with ease (bolt was barely finger tight!!!) new bushes fitted, replacement battery tray fitted over DE rusted and painted metal, clutch changed, older son booked for next weekend to help refit the gearbox.

Just refit and rebuild left now

oh and new back box to fit,

well OK and drive shaft to fit,

oh yes and a door lock to change over,

and um the leather seats to fit.

 

Ah and the exterior trim to tidy up, and its in dire need of a clean, um and nearly due an MOT & TAX.

 

But apart from that its all coming together

 

Except its in need of new speakers.

Isn't owning a 205 great

 

Roddie