[engine_work] 205 Dimma 4x4 Gti6 Supercharged

[M@tt 77]

Well i thought i'd start a thread on my next/latest project. My turbo CTI is almost finished so i've started sourcing the parts for my next project.

 

The plan is to supercharge a Gti6 engine with one of the eaton family of superchargers. I've got a M45 currently which i bought some time ago and this is the same SC as Madspikes & AllanAllen have successfully fitted to their 8v and Mi16 projects. However i'm quite tempted to try and source either a MP62 as found on various modern mercs or ven a m90 as found on supercharged Jag V8's.

 

The plan is to chop down the inlet manifold, create a new plenum with a chargecooler sandwiched between it and the supercharger (simple eh?? )

 

So far i have the donor car

 

 

i then bought a xsara vts very cheap locally, broke it for parts which i ebayed and scrapped the shell, effectily getting the engine for free

 

 

 

Then this weekend i picked up a 405 mi16 4x4 again for very little money (can you see a trend forming here ) and with the help of calvinhorse we removed the engine (which is up for sale ) and stripped all the running gear off it.

 

 

so now i have a nice selection of bits and so just need to work out how the hell i'm going to fit them all together.

 

Initial inspection of the 4x4 gearbox and the GTI6 block is promising and looks like it should go together quite nicely with a few minor adjustments.

 

It was pitch black by the time we finished today so i didn't get chance to get any pictures of all the 405 stuff offthe car but i will shortly and get them all posted up.

 

So watch this space....

[Peetypug 5]

very nice!

Dibs on the first passenger ride

[M@tt 77]

taking bookings now for 2012, as thats when it'll be finished proabably

Edited February 15, 2009 by M@tt

[mattbenselin 0]

Hell I'll hang onto the roof if it gets me a ride! Your not far from me either buddy

This is something I always wanted to do so will watch this project with great interest, good luck!

[Rippthrough 98]

taking bookings now for 2012, as thats when it'll be finished proabably:D

 

 

Yeah, but the S.Yorks group is building up a hell of of collection of beasties!

 

 

 

edit: Talking of beasties, if you and Henry fancy a wander up this week you can have a look around Kershaws 206 before it goes back, 'cause I was going to ask Henry to nip up to help me with what to put in a Torque article.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Rippthrough

[Moz_Goodwood 0]

the man from delmonte, he say yes!!!

[mitch205gti 1]

I think your just greedy, so when its finished I think you should give it to me

[M@tt 77]

i managed to get a quick pic of the rear suspension setup this morning before i set off for work for anyone interested.

 

 

Quite a few of the pipes are pretty rusty and infact one split slightly when we were taking the setup off, so these will be remade and can be done so with normal copper brake piping.

 

We've kept all the pipe work intact removed the hydraulic pump and associated pipe work from the boot so this can be used to run the suspension

[M@tt 77]

another small update

 

whilst i'm waiting on a few bits to finish up the CTi i made a start on stripping down the GTI6 engine. I removed all the loom and ancillaries

 

 

i had a few attempts at lifting the engine myself onto the engine stand but it really wasn't happening so out came the engine crane

 

 

with a bot of jiggery pokery i got the engine onto the stand which will make working on it alot easier

 

 

the tensioners appear to be in pretty good condition but the belt was a bit worryingly loose on the longest section so just as well i'd stripped it down. Whilst its all stripped down i need to decide what if any upgrade work i'm going to do to the head ie diy port polish, maybe some different cams etc i'll probably start a seperate thread for those discussions.

 

i also found that the bottom mount had a solid alloy mount in it. I don't think this is standard, does anyone know??

 

[platty 1]

Pretty sure my VTS had a normal rubber bush fitted in the lower mount, but will check tomorrow.

[M@tt 77]

sorry i should have said its the mount off the mi16 4x4, it looks like it's not all pressed all the way in so i'm guessing its proabbaly not standard, i've never heard of one as standard

Edited February 24, 2009 by M@tt

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

All the bushes where the std Rubber, Looks like a constella one to me

[M@tt 77]

i've made a start stripping down and cleaning the engine block

 

 

the best plan of attack was a wire brush on a drill and some thinners in a spray bottle. It's come up ok so far but i'll proabbaly get it hot tanked anyway just to make it thorough.

 

the engine appears to be in great condition , there is no lip what so ever at the top of the liners and the bores still have honing marks

 

 

the carbon ring round the top of the bore that can be seen in the pic above dissolves with thinners.

 

i cracked off the big end cpas and the earings appear to be in good conditon aith no major scoring or marks.

 

 

this was the worst bearing

 

 

the head also seems in good condition, the head gasket was in good condition so the engine probabaly didn't need stripping but its best to be on the safe side

 

 

so i just need to decide what i'm going to do when rebuilding it i.e. just go for a standard build or whether any upgrades are going to be worthwhile. I'm hoping for around 250 bhp and 200+ torque so i want the engine to comfortably handle that. I've not really got a budget but i won't be chucking thousands at it by any means(certainly not forged pistons/rods etc) but i'm thinking a bit of a basic head port polish to improve flow, get the valve guides checked/replaced if necessary, replace oil valve stem seals and maybe get the bottom end/flywheel lightened and balanced if i'm feeling flush

[welshpug 1,657]

from what the gti6 forum Supercharger boys are running from their standard engines you should be fine with a bog stock healthy lump as long as you can keep intake temps down and regulate the boost.

 

the gti6 head flows well enough its hard to improve on it so I would be tempted to leave as is unless you can afford to get a pro to do it

Edited March 9, 2009 by welshpug

[calvinhorse 870]

that engine does look in pretty damn good nick, you sure you did'nt make those honing marks with the wirebrush on a drill?

i would'nt bother having it ported it will go unnoticed with a supercharger on it

[M@tt 77]

also are GTI6 headbolts stretch type or can they be reused? they don't look like the stretch ones i used when i rebuilt my mi16

 

After reading some posts about bottom end balancing and flywheel lightening i gave Autosprint in birmingham a call, he quoted me £85 inc VAT for a full balance and £57.50 inc VAT for a flywheel lighten and balance, which was a very good price i thought, but obviously being in Birmingham i'd either have to take the pasrts too him myself or get them couriered (would only cost another £20 max though) so i thought i'd try somewhere local as a comparison. A quick google threw up AMB-Engineering in Sheffield, so i gave the chap a call and despite being very friendly he quoted me £130+vat to balance the bottom end plus a further £80 to have flywheel lightened. So it looks like Autosprint will definitely be getting my business!

Edited March 10, 2009 by M@tt

[taylorspug 7]

Std engine will do the job fine i think. I do know have been told using the 1800 16v exhaust cam will give you less overlap, may be ideal to stop the engine wasting boost.

 

EDIT: The headbolts can be re-used, i did on my engine anyway. However they dont feel quite as positive when you torque them down compared to new bolts, so that was the one and only time i re-used them.

Edited March 10, 2009 by taylorspug

[Mark205 1]

Where are you getting your head done, i have had my 8v head done at mhtmotorsports in congleton, just started up.

He did a good job on mine and for a very good price.

In my case i would recommend him to anyone.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Don't go rushing into flywheel lightening, I know a man

[M@tt 77]

Cheers for the info Dan I'll see if I can get any specs on that camshaft you mentioned, that was going to be another thread as to which, if any, cams would be a good upgrade, so you beat me to it cheers

 

Mark thanks for the recommendation I’ll bear him in mind. TBH I think I’ll probably just do it myself, and before everyone starts screaming NOOOOO all I’ll be doing is using a die grinder and a small flap wheel to smooth down some of the rough casting marks there won't be any port shaping or any of that going on so I shouldn't screw it up! (Famous last words)

 

I spent the first part of this evening dismantling the 405 rear beam section as it’s currently sat on my patio looking like a bit of an eyesore so I decided to strip it down so that I could store it away better till I need to start working on it.

 

I basically removed the rear diff, driveshaft’s, the back half of the prop shaft and the diff mounting plate leaving me with a beam that I was just about able to carry. the beam's really rusty so it's definitely going to get the sandblasting treatment at some point as it will take hours to clean with an angle grinder and wire cup brush.

 

 

After I’d sorted that I turned my attention back to stripping the crank and pistons out of the engine

 

one little thing I came across which wasn't immediately apparent was that the woodruff key holding the oil pump sprocket on needs to be removed out of the front before you can remove the sprocket and unlike the timing belt pulley the groove in it doesn't go all the way through

 

 

Another little problem I came across was that in order to be able to remove the crankshaft the dipstick tube as can be seen in this pic needed to be removed.

 

 

The tube stopped me getting a socket and breaker bar onto the bolts for main cap no.3. However I found that the top part of the dipstick tube had corroded itself to the main block pretty well so it took quite a bit of patience, plusgas and heat from a blow torch on the block surrounding the dipstick for it to be finally removed with the aid of a hammer and punch. Once the top part was out the punch could be put into the hole in the block and knock the lower portion of the tube out as well.

 

 

With the tube out of the way the remaining caps/big ends could be undone and the crank removed.

 

It was then a case of just removing the pistons one by one giving them a quick clean and labelling them so that it's obvious which way round and where each one goes when I come to reassembly

 

Edited March 10, 2009 by M@tt

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Get the pin's checked as even if they look good the main's do wear pretty quickly,

Use new bolt's as they are stretch one's and the std MLS gasket which I get from Pug as most factor gasket's are just the std type along with some ARB bolt's and it should be fine

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

leaving me with a beam that I was just about able to carry.

 

More weetabix for you Matthew!

 

Bearing in that picture isn't scored but is worn as you can see by the copper patch poking its way through. If you bring the crank I can mic it up for you. I'd also be tempted to have the block honed and fit new rings whilst you are at this stage.

Considering you are charging it I personally wouldn't bother spending time on the head with the flap wheel- I honestly don't think it will make a toss of difference.

[M@tt 77]

Miles the last HG i used iirc was made by Payan and that was apparenetly a MLS (multi layered steel for those that didn't know , i didn't till i just googled it ) does that sound suitable?

 

Are the ARP bolts necessary if i'm not going to be revving the engine any higher than standard? i've not heard of many rod bolts snapping, is it a common problem?

 

Tom i'll take you up on that offer cheers

 

also are those honing tools that you fit in a drill suitable for the job of giving the bores a hone or is it really a job best left to an engine place?

[petert 586]

So you're planning on putting a supercharged GTi6 in front of a standard Mi16x4 transfer box? Will it go bang?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

From having the std big end bolt's snap then yes I would replace, Trust me when you see the sheer/metal inside the quailty really does vary from one set to another. You still have depending on engine spec 7500 rpm to play with