Xu9j4 Big Valves And Regrinds Cams?

[Guest paulthai]

I read the Big Valves 36.5 from Pumarace and Regrinds cam from Peter T.

I am not sure who made it both together done.

Please advice and tell me How much the estimate HP?

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

I read the Big Valves 36.5 from Pumarace and Regrinds cam from Peter T.

I am not sure who made it both together done.

Please advice and tell me How much the estimate HP?

 

Really impossible to say, all from 0 - 100bhp extra, depending on everything else on the engine.

You need to be more specific in what you're asking really.

 

A reground camshaft without you stating any specs is getting hard to guesstimate.

 

Edit: By the way.. I don't think Pumaracing is selling those valves anymore either, I bought the last set 1 year ago I believe.

Edited February 10, 2009 by B1ack_Mi16

[Guest paulthai]

Really impossible to say, all from 0 - 100bhp extra, depending on everything else on the engine.

You need to be more specific in what you're asking really.

 

A reground camshaft without you stating any specs is getting hard to guesstimate.

 

Edit: By the way.. I don't think Pumaracing is selling those valves anymore either, I bought the last set 1 year ago I believe.

 

Thank you

 

I have the 16 of 36.5mm valves. But not from the pumaracing.

 

My Mi16 project this :

change the Throttle body to VR6

ported and put the 36.5mm valves

reground the inlet camshaft

put the slide pulley

and not sure anything else????

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

If PeterT sees this, he may give you a better explanation than me as to why this can be a costly exercise which doesn't give you any real, accessible gains.

 

That said, if this is a track car that's going to scream at 8,000rpm for a lot of the time then it really could give you a 300BHP engine.

 

In short, the Mi head flows 'out of the box' 250cuft/min, which ~ 250BHP.

 

Bigger valves naturally CAN flow more air/fuel, but you need a fair amount of (expensive) head work to:

 

{a} get the ports and new seats properly cut/angled/flowed

{b} get a large and aggressive enough cam (lift & duration) to allow the BVs to operate, which they don't really do until 7k rpm and up. The head needs work to even make this type of cam fit!!

 

And on {b}, my knowledge of cams is fairly limited, but I do not believe a regrind could ever deliver this; it would need to be an off the shelf new cam (eg CatCam) or a custom job made from a billet.

 

Naturally this engine will need great carbs/throttle bodies, a good ECU and some damn fine mapping.

 

Vernier pullies may also be another cost consideration.

 

If you were paying to get this done, I personally wouldn't expect much change out of £4,000, as there are other implications in reaching 8,000 rpm such as bottom end work that I haven't even mentioned.

 

This wasn't meant to dishearten you, but there's been a large amount of discussion on big valve heads here (16v in particular), which I believe is a pinned topic that is most educational.

 

Rich

Edited February 10, 2009 by DrSarty

[welshpug 1,661]

I got beaten to it by a minute

 

there are several engines out there with untouched valve sizes and often untouched ports that produce over the 200 bhp mark.

 

Doing all that work and staying on the standard (albeit modified) induction setup seems rather a pointless exercise when you could get more by just changing the induction.

[petert 588]

I can sell you both big valves and reground cams. However, both together are a waste of time, in my opinion. Whilst there is a benefit in flow at lower lifts from a correctly done big valve conversion, the real gains come from over 0.350" lift. Whilst both of my regrinds for the Mi16 have a lot of area under the curve (see Sandy's recent post about XU9J2 cams) they both only open to 0.350". Ideally you need a new billet cam with over 0.400" lift. Have a look at the options on my website or Catcams.

 

I see you already have the big valves. Make sure you use a reputable firm to do the conversion. The guides need to be pushed back (and replaced) so that the throat can be recontoured to match the new seat diameter. Ask for before and after flow figures!

 

If it were mine, I'd go the whole hog and fit new oversize 33mm solid lifters as well. This way you're reconditioning the bucket bores (probably worn anyway) and you can fit a high lift profile that you can rev to 7500 all day long, reliably.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Pete showed me an example of some of the head work with BV installations (to do it right I believe) such as practically 4-angle valve seats, where the final 4th angle is the blend into the already large port.

 

The restriction in the OE Mi head - if you can call it that - is that the valve seats for the already large valves, are actually smaller than the port casting. This explains to me why porting an Mi isn't really worth the time, money and effort, unless you're going for bigger valves and seats.

 

Cleaning and tidying may help a tad though (?).

[Guest paulthai]

Thank you everybody.

 

I get the big valve from the reputable company. The valves are from the standard turbo engine.

Well I think to modfiy only the top head,no need to modfiy bottom end.

In Thailand the cost of work around between £300 to £400 for modfiy the top head.

So I am interesting Stage I Intake High Lift (new billet only) with the big valve 36.5mm ported.

And same the another step.

 

What do you think? Please advies.

Edited February 10, 2009 by paulthai

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

What do you think?

 

You may need to delimit the ECU if you're not going to invest in an aftermarket one.

 

PeterT sells chips for this as you may need the extra revs to get the cam and head work to really begin to function.

 

My only concern - and I am NOT the most knowledgable on this (I'm just thinking logically about it) - , is that you're planning to open a bigger valve, for longer and with more lift. How are you going to get the benefit of this and chuck more fuel in, only using the standard inlet/throttle body and ECU?

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

I get the big valve from the reputable company. The valves are from the standard turbo engine.

 

What standard turbo engine?

[Guest paulthai]

What standard turbo engine?

Turbo diesel engine , not peugeot.

 

You may need to delimit the ECU if you're not going to invest in an aftermarket one.

The delimit ECU ..... from 7200 to 8000 or More?

Now my chip rev 7800 RPM. That 's enough???

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Well I suppose people like me are guessing stuff as you haven't provided all the info on what you do have.

 

Admittedly though, being in Thailand it seems your English is far better than my 'Thai'. Fair play to you.

 

Anyway, having more revs accessible via a delimited ECU is one thing, having the engine internals (e.g. hydraulic or solid lifters etc) to handle that to actually get at the power from the BV head and more aggressive cams is something else.

 

What do you think about my question about how you're going to put more fuel & air in? Is your ECU somehow mappable? You haven't told us that either.

 

There's lots of help and knowledge available on here, from people far more clever than me, but I think it would help if you explained two things:

 

1) What you want this car for

 

2) What components you have and have access to and your budget

 

Regards

 

Rich

Edited February 10, 2009 by DrSarty

[Guest paulthai]

Well I suppose people like me are guessing stuff as you haven't provided all the info on what you do have.

 

Admittedly though, being in Thailand it seems your English is far better than my 'Thai'. Fair play to you.

Thank Rich. Ha haaaa

 

 

1) What you want this car for

I want 180 BHP @wheel.

 

2) What components you have and have access to and your budget

36.5 mm valves

VR6 Throttle body

silde pulley

plan to reground cams step I from Peter T.

plan to ported

plan to get the remap ROM from Peter T

 

I have not idea about the remap and delimited ECU.

 

Please tell me any more items for set 180BHP........hydraulic or solid lifters etc

How much? How can I get?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

To put what I'm saying into perspective for you, I'm just over 180BHP ATW, and that's 2.2L, throttle bodies, Emerald ECU and lots more, all for over £4,000!

 

In a polite way, you're dreaming I think.

[welshpug 1,661]

your list should get you near 180 bhp at the flywheel, not the road

[Guest paulthai]

To put what I'm saying into perspective for you, I'm just over 180BHP ATW, and that's 2.2L, throttle bodies, Emerald ECU and lots more, all for over £4,000!

 

In a polite way, you're dreaming I think.

Thank you. More over £4,000.

 

 

[Guest paulthai]

your list should get you near 180 bhp at the flywheel, not the road

Good news.... same the 180 bhp but different place.

[niklas 1]

Thank Rich. Ha haaaa

 

 

1) What you want this car for

I want 180 BHP @wheel.

 

2) What components you have and have access to and your budget

36.5 mm valves

VR6 Throttle body

silde pulley

plan to reground cams step I from Peter T.

plan to ported

plan to get the remap ROM from Peter T

 

I have not idea about the remap and delimited ECU.

 

Please tell me any more items for set 180BHP........hydraulic or solid lifters etc

How much? How can I get?

 

180 bhp at the wheels is definitely possible, but you need other cams, other intake and an aftermarket ECU.

A well-done job even consists of other pistons to get the desired compression ratio.

Use DrSarty's £4000 figure as a fact of what it's gonna cost you!

 

Big valves may or may not improve the situation, it's up to the guy who will modify the head!

Usually, if you are not racing and have class regulations to follow, "there's no replacement for displacement"... It's much cheaper in the end to increase the displacement of the engine than to increase the revs (revs tends to wear things out in a shorter amount of time!).

[Guest paulthai]

In Thailand the E-manage are easy to find and easy to Tune the fuel and ignition.

I am not sure. Who use the E-manage blue with xu9j4 before?

Edited February 13, 2009 by paulthai

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Well, like I said before: you're not telling us everything.

 

This is the first time you've mentioned that you have this 'blue' thing, meaning mappable ECU apparently.

 

It's like asking us what a meal might taste like but without telling us what ingredients you're gonna use. I have never heard of the E-manage blue thing, so I can't help you. However everything that's been said before is true.

 

If you want 180BHP at the flywheel, it still requires some work, but big valves aren't needed. A good inlet cam (CatCam or PeterT), standard or VAG throttle body and perhaps a rolling road set-up using your blue jobbie should do the trick.

 

But you still haven't explained what you want this car for. It strikes me you're just after some higher numbers to 'beat' your friends.

Edited February 13, 2009 by DrSarty

[engine killer 6]

e-manage is a piggy-back ecu from Japan. i have seen a few installed in Hong Kong but eventually they switched to a proper ecu due to lack of tunability. afaik it is quite easy to use but the outcome is just so so, can be better than "off the shelf" chipping.

 

it's a trend to have nice figure (number) when having good time in the pub. not too many people really care about the track time or may be they don't even want to try.

 

i have been longing for dave baker's bv head a few years back when my Mi was being rebuilt. unfortunately he refused my order due to his fully booked order cannot digest one more job. opening up the throats is not just plug and play jobbie so i didn't take that risk getting it done here.

[Guest paulthai]

Well, like I said before: you're not telling us everything.

 

This is the first time you've mentioned that you have this 'blue' thing, meaning mappable ECU apparently.

 

It's like asking us what a meal might taste like but without telling us what ingredients you're gonna use. I have never heard of the E-manage blue thing, so I can't help you. However everything that's been said before is true.

 

If you want 180BHP at the flywheel, it still requires some work, but big valves aren't needed. A good inlet cam (CatCam or PeterT), standard or VAG throttle body and perhaps a rolling road set-up using your blue jobbie should do the trick.

 

But you still haven't explained what you want this car for. It strikes me you're just after some higher numbers to 'beat' your friends.

Thank you for your kindness.

I am telling you everything. But I am not sure about my mind.

 

Actually I need the 180BHP at the wheel, after I read the pumaracing.

After that I collect the items on Ebay. But some items very expensive in UK. (The postage cost to high)

So I think some item I can collect in Thailand. such as E-manage blue and some electronic eq.

But I learn more on this web. Just 180BHP at the flywheel are OK.

 

Usually my Mi16 using only weekend.

I drive for fun.

The VR6 Throttle body and big valves project begin on Dec, 2008. But now the throttle body and big valves still in the box.

I am not sure when I install that 2 items. Maybe to add more another items, or not?

So I sign up the 205Gtidriver on 4 Feb. And post this question for make sure before install.

 

I need more the information. Every comment are welcome.

[Guest paulthai]

e-manage is a piggy-back ecu from Japan. i have seen a few installed in Hong Kong but eventually they switched to a proper ecu due to lack of tunability. afaik it is quite easy to use but the outcome is just so so, can be better than "off the shelf" chipping.

 

it's a trend to have nice figure (number) when having good time in the pub. not too many people really care about the track time or may be they don't even want to try.

 

i have been longing for dave baker's bv head a few years back when my Mi was being rebuilt. unfortunately he refused my order due to his fully booked order cannot digest one more job. opening up the throats is not just plug and play jobbie so i didn't take that risk getting it done here.

How about the F Con V?

[engine killer 6]

heard about it before, it suppose to be "not bad at all" but i and my friend haven't tried it before so no comment. it is from japan so i guess the quality and reliability should be quite good.

 

you should get one with strong support especially from different tuners.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

If you can live with 180hp at the flywheel, my recommendation would be to keep your life simple and run the standard head untouched with a pair of the catcams #4900528. some verniers, a decent manifold and mappable ECU on throttle bodies. This might be a similar price to the head work but is a lot simpler and relies less on other people's craftsmanship on the head (but you'll need someone who knows what they're doing to map it). You should easily see 190 at the flywheel, fingers crossed more like 195 or more (depending upon whose rolling road figures you believe). Without the bodies and using the standard VR6 TB I'm not sure you'll get those numbers but you'll probably make the 180 without too much issue.

 

I'm starting the build of a 265+ engine and that will run standard valve sizes, so really you are creating work for yourself unnecessarily I think. But hey, you should do what you want to, of course!

Edited February 14, 2009 by brumster