Howto: 406 Brembo 4pot On 1,9hubs?

[petert 588]

Whats wrong with spacing them out 16mm?I'm also looking at the c5 15" wheels does anyone know if they give more/less clearance than speedlines.

 

Nothing. I use 28mm spacers with my 15" Simmons wheels. Just use what ever it takes to get the wheel in the right place. I also run C5 wheels but I think you need 18-20mm with them. I usually just leave the 28mm spacers in place.

[Spiky 37]

not running spacers, is a personal choice of mine, as i always feel it's a bad thing to do, putting extra stress on everything.

 

so i prefer the fact my wheels bolt on as std.

 

and being a track car, there is a lot of stress put on things like wheel bearing, studs, so adding more is not a good thing IMO

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

checked discs from 307 2L 16hdi (302mmx26mm):

 

Looking at disc offset, they are 6mm off from the coupe discs = calipers can sit aligned with original mount on the hub, thereby making an adapter so much easier.

 

Will get hold of a pair of 307 discs, and from that make a drawing of an adapter.

 

-> Cybernck, If you want to help out - then thx :-) Would be good for comparative reasons to do a dimensionscheck!

Edited January 20, 2009 by lybker

[projectpug 0]

Nothing. I use 28mm spacers with my 15" Simmons wheels. Just use what ever it takes to get the wheel in the right place. I also run C5 wheels but I think you need 18-20mm with them. I usually just leave the 28mm spacers in place.

 

 

Thanks for the info petert great help

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

i've got 302x26mm discs in my garage but i wouldn't use them with Brembo's.

 

minimum disc thickness for 305x28mm discs is 26mm and it must have something

to do with caliper specs too. if you start with 26mm and work your way down to 24mm,

it is not ideal. Hilgie also thought that using 283x26mm discs is not a good idea afterall,

so he modified a set of 288x28mm Xantia discs for his 205 V6. i'm sure 26mm discs

would warp easier too.

 

 

but theoretically, you're correct:

 

283x26x7 vs 302x26x7 - 9.5mm caliper spacer with no offset/step

283x26x7 vs 305x28x0 - 11mm caliper spacer with 6mm offset/step

 

but that depends on how well the discs are positioned (radially) with 283x26mm discs

to begin with (can't really see the position of the pads on the disc in your pictures).

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

Of course you should add a 1mm spacer behind each pad - as I wrote in my first post in this thread. Oh and remember - its only radius and not diameter difference, so 9,5mm bracket and not 19mm.

 

on a 283mm disc its perfectly placed on the disc :-)

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

oops, ofcourse , i edited my post now.

 

 

what do you call perfect placement though?

 

as you can see, the original setup places pads a mm or so away from the edge.

what's it like on your setup compared to that? that's a vital piece of info .

[Cameron 16]

All I'd need dimension-wise is the hole spacing and the material thickness, then can knock up a quick CAD file and get a quote from the cutters.

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

haha ok :-)

 

 

Seems its just that - 1-2mm from the edge of the disc.

 

Because we are only talking max 10mm offset on 305 discs and 8mm offset on 302mm - we need to move the caliber either up or down, not to interfere with the M12 bolts...

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

^ yes, exactly what i was going to add.

 

 

here's what adapters for 330mm discs look like, though i don't like the way the holes are

sloped down (way too much), as it makes the brakes look horrible from the outside:

 

 

i mean, there's no point in spacing the holes so apart that the new top hole is very close

to the original lower hole . i'd have them closer to eachother (if the mounting lugs

can clear the hub) and i'd actually turn the adapters the other way round so the calipers

move up instead of down.

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

Cameron> for the 302x26mm setup, the adapter would need to be flat and of adequate

thickness. the calipers would be mounted on the same side as the hub, so the acutal

offset doesn't change.

 

for the 305x28mm setup, the part of the adapter with the "new holes" would need to

be 6mm thicker towards the wheel face, to space the calipers towards the wheel face.

 

i'm sure you understand it all, just making sure .

 

please do some drawings and get a quote.

 

thanks.

[Cameron 16]

I think I understand what you mean, but just to be sure:

The 302 x 26 setup - the calliper doesn't need spacing (towards / away from the wheel face) but does need moving outwards to fit the larger disc.

The 305 x 28 setup - the calliper needs to be spaced 6mm towards the wheel face and moving outwards to fit the larger disc.

 

I'd need the bolt hole distances before I can make a drawing, if you could find these measurements that would be great:

 

 

The red lines are the bolt hole PCD, the distance from the centre of the hub, for both the original mounts and the new mounts.

The green lines are the bolt hole centre distances for the original and new mounts.

 

Hope that makes sense.

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

sorry, i made a mistake in a hurry - it's 6mm's spacing towards wheel face (i edited both our posts to suit).

 

looking at your pic, both green lines are the same measurement (as Brembo's can mount directly to the hub)

whereas the longer red lines have to be 9.5mm longer than base (shorter) ones for the 302x26mm setup and

11mm longer for the 305x28mm setup.

 

therefore i need to measure the green line and shorter red lines and i think i'll be able to do it tomorrow.

it would be good if lybker would do the same just so we'd be sure we've got the right measurements.

 

thanks.

[Cameron 16]

Good stuff.

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

sorry, only managed to do a not-so-precise measurement of the "green line", which is about 82mm.

 

my hubs have driveshafts in so i wasn't able to measure the "red lines" at all.

 

we rely on lybker now.

[Cameron 16]

No problem.

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

Sad to say, its not possible to use the 305mm discs, as the caliber will touch the hub - no matter what position they are at.

 

So using the 302x26discs is the first criteria.

 

Secondly, if one is to avoid cutting in the brembos, they can only fit in this position (pointing a bit downwards)

 

 

If so then the bracket for the right side will look like this:

 

 

If one is unhappy with this placement, its possible to let them sit exact vertically, but then one needs to do a cut-out in the brembos to make room for the bolt between hub and bracket :-(

 

I can make a drawing of this bracket if there is any interest....

[petert 588]

305mm rotors seem like to much effort for me. It's more important to use what you have effectively. For example, 283mm rotors with Endless pads would be more than adequate for 99% of the people on this forum.

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

Here is how it will look, if one was to grind a bit on the lower mount on the brembos (from 9mm down to 5mm to make room for the bolt between bracket and hub)

 

placement:

 

bracket:

 

Petert: Yes I do agree - this is only for the crazy 1% of us... :-)

[Cameron 16]

Good models. The 3rd hole down in the 1st one is a bit to close to that large radius though, does it need to be like that for clearance?

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

yes sadly - else it will touch the brembo

Edited January 21, 2009 by lybker

[petert 588]

Can you get Endless pads in Europe? I know for a fact the GTi180 calipers with Endless pads will out stop 406 Brembos/std. pads combination quite easily. It's more about the friction material than the pad area or rotor diameter.

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

excellent work, have you managed to measure everything precisely?

 

i just don't get it why are you saying 305x28mm discs are impossible?

 

we shouldn't modify the Brembo's btw - the mounting points are known to fail if modified.

 

p.s. like i said earlier, i think the brakes would look much better moved up instead of down.

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

Cybercnk: Yes I know - but there is simply no room to move them upwards without the bolt-holes overlapping or hitting the damper.

 

Reason You cant use the 305x28 discs is that moving the brembos closer to the wheel, means the mounting face of the calibers will hit the mounting face of the hub - even moving the caliber down so its exact in the middle of the hub-mounts, its still at least 10mm of the pads are not touching the disc :-(.

 

Petert: I dont know the brand "endless" but Ferodo make some really good pads for racing: DS2500 and DS3000 series. I have no intention of using anything less with he brembos! :-)

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Just get some porsche calipers with radial mount. Easy to make brackets.